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Thread started 21 Jan 2006 (Saturday) 04:34
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what's the best Monitor/Printer profiler?

 
I ­ Simonius
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Jan 21, 2006 04:34 |  #1

I have been trying to grok how to profile my monitor and printer

The options seem endless!
what should be considered in the choice of profiling software and hardware
Do you get what you pay for, or do some of the cheapies do the job?

here's some of the profiling stuff on sale..
ColorPlus/Spyder 2/Spyder 2 Pro/PrintFIX/Profiler Plus/Monaco EZcolor/Monaco Optix XR & XR Pro/Kodak 35mm Transmissive Targets/Digital Colour Checker SG/Pulse ColorElite RGB/Eye-One Display 2/Eye-One Photo/Pantone Huey Monitor Calibrator/Pantone Eye-One Display LT/Pantone Eye-One Display 2/iCorrect EditLab Pro/inCamera/Imageprin​t 5.5

Where to start?
:confused:


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mbze430
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Jan 21, 2006 05:23 |  #2

I can only give you from what I have.

Eye-One Photo - $1400 Profile Maker v5.0 Pro - $2800 + Device Link Upgrade $ 1990 - MeasureTool upgrade $595 - CYMK Upgrade - $500 -ColorChecker SG - $299 - Colorchecker original - $69 - IT8 Target $40 - Colorchecker B&W $59 - inCamera $149

With what I have I can profile anything including negatives, scanners, monitors, cameras, and everything else.


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I ­ Simonius
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Jan 21, 2006 06:10 as a reply to  @ mbze430's post |  #3

mbze430 wrote:
I can only give you from what I have.

Eye-One Photo - $1400 Profile Maker v5.0 Pro - $2800 + Device Link Upgrade $ 1990 - MeasureTool upgrade $595 - CYMK Upgrade - $500 -ColorChecker SG - $299 - Colorchecker original - $69 - IT8 Target $40 - Colorchecker B&W $59 - inCamera $149

With what I have I can profile anything including negatives, scanners, monitors, cameras, and everything else.

ay ay ay - you need all that! mama mia!

I thought there was going to be a simple answer - aaaaagh! :(


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DavidW
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Jan 22, 2006 12:56 |  #4

For screen calibration, most reviewers seem to rate Gretag Macbeth (I think your list has mixed up some Gretag Macbeth and Pantone products) Eye-One Display 2 and Monaco OPTIX XR or OPTIX XR Pro. The Pantone stuff is more controversial; at least some reviewers have reported poor calibration on some setups.

I went for Monaco OPTIX XR Pro. The Pro gives you some additional features, such as the ability to evaluate profiles once you've made them (useful to get an idea of how well your monitor is calibrated, also how it deteriorates over time), also create table based profiles based on 99 patches rather than curve based profiles based on 35 patches. These differences may not matter to you - though Monaco make it hard to upgrade to Pro later (the only way is to buy the OPTIX XR Pro software outright, which is jolly expensive).


For really high quality printer calibration, you need to play with the big boys. The minimum I've seen recommended for fairly high end work is Monaco Pulse, which is spectrophotometer based. By the time you've bought that and a screen calibrator, you're taking about very nearly a thousand pounds.

Monaco EZcolor may be worth a look if you're prepared to tweak the profile afterwards - I am tempted to give it a try, but the only photo quality inkjet is only four colour, and there's other things higher on my wishlist that will make more difference to how I use my camera. You will need a flat bed scanner on which you can disable any auto colour corrections to use EZcolor.

If EZcolor tempts you, and you're not interested in the Pro features of OPTIX XR Pro, there is an EZcolor plus OPTIX XR bundle which saves some money (I believe the EZcolor software has the functionality of the non-Pro version of OPTIX XR built in, so you just need the colorimeter adding, which is what the bundle does). There is an EZcolor / OPTIX XR Pro bundle, but it saves very little.


With an inkjet printer, if you're using a paper and ink combination for which a manufacturer's profile is available, that may be close enough. Many third party paper manufacturers produce profiles if you're using printer manufacturer's inks. Don't expect to find profiles for one manufacturer's paper in another printer, though - Epson aren't going to produce profiles for Epson paper in a Canon printer using Canon inks!

If a paper manufacturer's profile isn't good enough, one option is to use a bureau service, which will produce, for a fee, a profile for you. They send you instructions and a file to print a target on your printer using the ink and paper you wish to calibrate, then you send that target to them. They make a profile for you using a decent spectrophotometer, and send it to you.

I don't know what people's feelings on this are, but a bureau may well get you closer than a low end printer calibration setup for those of us who can't justify a spectrophotometer based setup. If you only use one ink and paper combination, it could be an excellent choice - though EZcolor may be worth a go too (I think it's the only flatbed scanner based solution that uses a calibrated target as a starting point).


Another solution for prints is to use a bureau that provides ICC profiles for its digital lab. This can work out cheaper than printing your own with an inkjet anyway - I'm considering seriously going this way and not bothering with upgrading my printer, bearing in mind that I really don't need immediate printed output. I'm certainly intending, when I've got some shots together than I want printed, to try one or two printing services before making any decisions about an upgraded printer and printer calibration solution.


I hope this is useful! Clearly Johnny's (mbze430) solution is ideal, but far more money than most of us can justify. There are many things I'd buy before such high end calibration kit, and I can't see me ever having that sort of money.

David




  
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Jan 22, 2006 13:24 |  #5

Colorvision Spyder 2 (external link) for monitor calibration. I think that they make printer / scanner calibration tools too...


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Jan 22, 2006 13:45 |  #6

Color Vision seems the most accesible,. but reviewers allways give the nod to Monaco for price to performance.

Either way I think it's hard to go wrong..

I had decided to purchase the Monaco some time ago,. when an opportunity to get the Colorvision free came up... and after running the colorvision calibration I could see details in images that weren't visible on my high end monitor before.. due to contrst being too high.

So I can vouch for the Spyder/Colorvision.. but I understand that Monaco is the better choice,. DavidW's post allready explains details as to why so I won't repeat it,. but what he mentions is similar to why I had decided Monaco was the way to go.


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DavidW
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Jan 22, 2006 15:27 |  #7

Just to clarify, by Pantone I was meaning Colorvision - the two companies seem to be linked.

Some reviewers have found problems with the Spyder - such as this (external link) (registration probably required). Most reviewers like the Monaco OPTIX XR (Pro) setup, so it's what I went for.

David




  
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mbze430
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Jan 22, 2006 15:59 |  #8

My setup is mainly for commerical presses. Most people will do fine with cheaper options. If you spend about the $1690 for the Eye-One Photo/SG you will be able to have a great ICC workflow for home use.

But remember the SG taget is only helpful in a lighting situation that is consistant. Studio. I have shot it during outside, but the light needs to be controlled.


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Jan 22, 2006 16:39 as a reply to  @ DavidW's post |  #9

DavidW wrote:
With an inkjet printer, if you're using a paper and ink combination for which a manufacturer's profile is available, that may be close enough.

If a paper manufacturer's profile isn't good enough, one option is to use a bureau service, which will produce, for a fee, a profile for you. They send you instructions and a file to print a target on your printer using the ink and paper you wish to calibrate, then you send that target to them. They make a profile for you using a decent spectrophotometer, and send it to you.
David

Thanks for that David!


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Jan 22, 2006 17:03 as a reply to  @ DavidW's post |  #10

DavidW wrote:
Just to clarify, by Pantone I was meaning Colorvision - the two companies seem to be linked.

Some reviewers have found problems with the Spyder - such as this (external link) (registration probably required). Most reviewers like the Monaco OPTIX XR (Pro) setup, so it's what I went for.

David

I think this

07/22/04 We were contacted by the sales director for ColorVision who, in an aggressively toned email, disclosed that they were not able to reproduce my results in their testing therefore they suspect the Crockett Studios process of testing, the unexpected characteristics of our particular monitor, or "most likely" an issue with your particular Spyder. We suggested they take a closer look at the numerous complaints we've received (and even forwarded to ColorVision over the past months) regarding this same identical issue instead of questioning our research. I received a reply back from one of the reps for CV that was in on the current email discussion that was obscene and we certainly could not print it here. We asked that CV refrain from contacting us ever again.

bums me out more than anything else. I'm not using a CRT monitor (Viewsonic 21" flatpanel) and, for now, I am not shooting as a professional, so maybe my Spyder 2 will be ok... but... it doesn't sound like Color Vision has their poop in a pile (but... the date is 18 months old, give or take).

Thanks for the link BTW... Cool site


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JohnCollins
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Jan 22, 2006 20:11 |  #11

I bought the Monaco Optix XR-Pro for my monitor recently and it's terrific. I've read good things about the ColorVision Spyder, also. My Monaco was on sale for a couple hundred dollars US, and given what I've spent on camera, lenses, flash, and software, I didn't think it was expensive at all and it has improved my output immensely.

I'm no expert, but what I've read leads me to believe that none of the printer profilers using your scanner are worth much, and evidently, the reflective colorimeter equipment needed to do one up right is prohibitively expensive. . .unless you're going into the printer profiling business, to sell profiles to others, or start a commercial printing operation.

I decided to buy mine, as they are available in the US for $40-50. For $99, you can buy as many as you can use in a year from DryCreekPhoto, so you can profile several papers or reprofile when you reink.

I wouldn't scrimp on the monitor profiler, as I believe it is the most important link in the color management chain (Uncle Doug, correct me if I'm off-base there!). Your output should improve immensely when you get your monitor calibrated, even if you don't profile your printer. I think the printer profile is the next biggest "bang for the money" in the color management process, but have it sent out to folks with the right equipment. That's what I'm doing, but YMMV.

John




  
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Jan 22, 2006 21:00 |  #12

Gretag has the best complete system. The bundle is called the eye one xt.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: script

There's my desk at work with the complete eye-one system.



  
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I ­ Simonius
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Jan 23, 2006 05:06 as a reply to  @ Mike6158's post |  #13

Mike6158 wrote:
I think this

bums me out more than anything else.

thanks that was very valuable feedback


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I ­ Simonius
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Jan 23, 2006 05:08 as a reply to  @ JohnCollins's post |  #14

JohnCollins wrote:
I bought the Monaco Optix XR-Pro for my monitor recently and it's terrific. I've read good things about the ColorVision Spyder, also. My Monaco was on sale for a couple hundred dollars US, and given what I've spent on camera, lenses, flash, and software, I didn't think it was expensive at all and it has improved my output immensely.

I'm no expert, but what I've read leads me to believe that none of the printer profilers using your scanner are worth much, and evidently, the reflective colorimeter equipment needed to do one up right is prohibitively expensive. . .unless you're going into the printer profiling business, to sell profiles to others, or start a commercial printing operation.

I decided to buy mine, as they are available in the US for $40-50. For $99, you can buy as many as you can use in a year from DryCreekPhoto, so you can profile several papers or reprofile when you reink.

I wouldn't scrimp on the monitor profiler, as I believe it is the most important link in the color management chain (Uncle Doug, correct me if I'm off-base there!). Your output should improve immensely when you get your monitor calibrated, even if you don't profile your printer. I think the printer profile is the next biggest "bang for the money" in the color management process, but have it sent out to folks with the right equipment. That's what I'm doing, but YMMV.

John

Thanks - looks like I'll have to start looking round to see if anyone does it locally


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I ­ Simonius
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Jan 23, 2006 05:09 as a reply to  @ jj1987's post |  #15

jj1987 wrote:
Gretag has the best complete system. The bundle is called the eye one xt.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: script

There's my desk at work with the complete eye-one system.

Looks like the Monaco Optix XR-Pro and GretagMacbeth sysytems are getting most thumbs ups:D

Just a question of what one can afford now I suppose


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