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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 21 Jan 2006 (Saturday) 09:05
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Help a Newbie learn about RAW

 
SezzySue
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Jan 21, 2006 09:05 |  #1

Hi everyone, how are you? I am still pretty new to shooting with a DSLR, in fact mine is still in the mail on its way here. I orrdered the Canon 20D. I do not have any software other then Photoshop Elements 2.0 which is the same that comes with the camera I believe. I have been trying to read about RAW format and understand it but I am completely lost. Can you try to explain it to me in a way I might understand? Also does the Canon 20D come with a program that I may post process RAW files? If so is it a good one? If not how much does a program cost? Thank you all for the help. I can't wait to start shooting with my new camera.


Sarah www.seibertphotography​.com (external link)

  
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FlyACL
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Jan 21, 2006 10:13 |  #2

Hello Sarah! I am fine, thanks for asking. :)

To start with, your new camera will be ablel to take photos and output them as two different types of files. One is JPG that I am sure you have used before. JPG is a great file format for photos because it can be compressed. That means it will take up less space on your memory card and HD. It is also a very common file type so you can email it to people, put it on the web, and open it in just about any program. (ie insert a nice picture into your Word doc).

Where JPG falls short is when the little computer in your camera compresses the file, some data is lost. So if you try and do a lot of post processing in Photoshop or something you will have less of the original data that was there to work with.

So, your camera also does another file format, RAW. Think of RAW as a digital negitive like you used to get with your film prints. It has 100% of the data that was captured when you took your photo. This gives you much, much more headroom when you are using PS or something else to make adjustments.

For example, lets say you took photo with the white balance set wrong. With a JPG it would be harder to fix and you might not even be able to do it. With RAW it is a simple couple of clicks and it is fixed with no real loss of quality. Same for adjusting a messed up exposure. With a RAW file you will be able to fix bigger mistakes, then with a JPG.

This comes at a price however. First you have to use a RAW file processer or converter to convert your files to a more usuable format like JPG or TIFF. It is not hard to do, but if you have a pile of 20-40 photos that you just want to email/print/put online, you need to processes them first. The second thing is the files are much larger. Depending on the subject a JPG file might only be 3MB where a RAW might be 8MB or more. So if you only have a 1GB memory card you will be limited in the number of photos you can take. (until you move the files off your card).

As for software that will do this, your camera will come with some. It is called Digital Photo Pro (DPP), there are also several other ones too. Some are even free. The best thing to do here is use a couple and see what one you like best. Then try and learn as much as you can about it. All RAW processers have many different settings and things to adjust. The more you know about them, the better your photos will be and the less time you will spend processing them.

If you are looking for a good book. Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS2 by Bruce Fraser is a wonderfull book. You don't have to have CS2 to read the book and learn more about what RAW is and why/when to use it.

Last I will just say, you don't have to learn all of this the first day you get your camera. You can just shoot JPG for a while and get used to everything first. Then when you are ready shoot some RAW and get a feel for that. Some people don't ever shoot raw, some only use it. In the end it is what fits with your personal perference and how much computer time you want to put in on your photos.

There are lots of good forums on the web, including this one. People are usually very helpfull so if you get stuck or have a question just ask. You can also use the search feature as there is a ton of great info already posted.

Take care and congrats on the new camera~




  
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ssim
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Jan 21, 2006 10:22 as a reply to  @ FlyACL's post |  #3

When I first got my 10D I shot JPG for maybe the first card worth of images and then made the switch to RAW. It is undoubtedly the best way to go. Whether you are shooting JPG or RAW your camera operation is basically the same except that you have alot of more room for recovery with the RAW images.

As noted above your camera will come with DPP and it does an ok job but I am not a fan of it personally.

Probably the best one out there (considering that it is free) is Raw Shooter Essentials. www.pixmantec.com (external link) . It is easy to use and I found it very easy to learn. For me personally, I have never found that reading does it for me, I have to have my hands on the keyboard and practise, practise, practise. Doing the conversions from RAW to an editable version is very easy. Download the pdf from RSE and it will give you just about everything that you are going to need.

The other, but more expensive converters are Breezebrowser which I use almost exclusively as a browser and Phase one. I have the Raw Shooter Premium and phase one and switch between the two of them depending on the type of image that I am working on.

There is no reason to be fearful of RAW it is definitely the way to go unless you have a time constraint from shooting to delivering the image.


My life is like one big RAW file....way too much post processing needed.
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Vega$50
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Jan 21, 2006 14:19 |  #4

Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS
Industrial-Strength Production Techniques
by Bruce Fraser

comes in a pdf file that is around 21mb. It is a very indepth e-book on the matter. When my friends ask about RAW... This is the book I tell them to consult...


"Pedro... offers you his protection!" - N.D. 2005

Notice: My post is packaged by intellectual weight, not volume. Some settling of contents may have occurred during transmission.

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www.tinstars.org (external link) <-Galleries

www.fstopforums.com (external link)

  
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DavidW
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Jan 22, 2006 15:52 |  #5

Sarah - at the very least, I would shoot everything RAW plus JPEG, and keep the RAW files. That way, you won't find yourself wishing you had a RAW file in the future.

I believe RAW really is the way to go - from taking the camera out of the box, I shot RAW plus small JPEG, but only used the JPEGs for previewing, and I throw them away fairly early in my workflow. It helps that I had Photoshop CS2 before I had the camera, and hence all the advantages of Bridge and Adobe Camera Raw 3. I believe you're a student - it's worth checking on educational pricing for Photoshop CS2, as you could get pretty much the definitive program for a fair price.

I believe I'm right in saying that there's no version of Adobe Camera Raw that works with Photoshop Elements 2.


That said, there's Canon's DPP (you'll probably find version 1 on the CD in the box; the upgrade to version 2 can be found on Canon's web site, though you have to install some Canon software for the downloadable version to install), also Raw Shooter Essentials that Sheldon mentions.

David




  
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gmazet
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Jan 23, 2006 19:30 as a reply to  @ DavidW's post |  #6

DavidW wrote:
I believe RAW really is the way to go - from taking the camera out of the box, I shot RAW plus small JPEG, but only used the JPEGs for previewing, and I throw them away fairly early in my workflow. It helps that I had Photoshop CS2 before I had the camera, and hence all the advantages of Bridge and Adobe Camera Raw 3. I believe you're a student - it's worth checking on educational pricing for Photoshop CS2, as you could get pretty much the definitive program for a fair price.

I believe I'm right in saying that there's no version of Adobe Camera Raw that works with Photoshop Elements 2.

That said, there's Canon's DPP (you'll probably find version 1 on the CD in the box; the upgrade to version 2 can be found on Canon's web site, though you have to install some Canon software for the downloadable version to install), also Raw Shooter Essentials that Sheldon mentions.


David

Agreed, I haven't shot a JPEG in over 7000 exposures with my 300D. Capture one rebel is pretty good, cheap, but limits you to only 10 files in the processing queue (for what reason I have no idea). The down side of the limit is that even though you might have 100 photos that you want to apply the same white balance or exposure compensation settings to, you have to sit there and wait until the queue clears and fill it manually. The pro version of capture one does not have this limit, but it is 300 bucks compared to the 50 for the rebel version..

However, I really like the interface, and it really does help fine-tune the photos before you go to jpeg or tiff.

I actually like the tuning capabilities of picasa, especially the fill light. I know photoshop is the king, but I haven't had a chance to learn it yet, soon, perhaps..

G


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http://bigwoolyg.smugm​ug.com referral code: AinLQRAlKQIZ6

  
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Reeforbust
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Jan 24, 2006 15:13 as a reply to  @ gmazet's post |  #7

I'm gettin ready to switch over to RAW format from JPEG........

QUESTION: (Canon G5)

When I take pics I like in JPEG format, download to my computer and then view the pic in its full size, there is some grain or pixel'ation of the pic.(not much)
Will shooting in RAW help make the pic smoother? (hope that is clear?)

Especially shooting Macro's......I like to get that Microscopic look!!


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jfrancho
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Jan 24, 2006 20:02 |  #8

at what magnification?



  
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Reeforbust
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Jan 24, 2006 20:16 as a reply to  @ jfrancho's post |  #9

100%


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Meaty0
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Jan 24, 2006 20:20 |  #10

I was in your shoes just last November! I found the whole process daunting at first. I shot mostly in JPEG to begin with, then after I felt comfortable with my 20D, I shot RAW only and converted it to TIFF or JPEG using Digital Photo Professional (that came with the camera).

Later, I bought Photoshop Elements 4.0 ($150) and it has an excellent RAW converter in it. I highly recommend this program to any beginner like me, it's excellent. A few "how to" books are beginning to appear for this program too.

Hope this helps.



  
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tim
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Jan 25, 2006 00:28 |  #11

Read this (external link).

Hey I should set up a referrer account on Amazon, the number of links I post I could make a few $$$. Or Pekka should set one up and it can support the forum.


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Read all my FAQs (wedding, printing, lighting, books, etc)

  
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SabrinaDionne
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Jan 25, 2006 18:34 |  #12

Help me please! I have been shooting JPG for years , well I am ready to make the jump to RAW, but there is one problem. I shoot in RAW and then when I put my card in the reader and it goes to a file on my pc it goes from RAW to JPG. Why is it doing this. Can I get it back to RAW? I have a canon EOS 1D MArk 2 (long name) and the programs on my pc are photoshop CS2 and the bundle that came with my camera. I am lost where do I go from storing it in my camera to storing it on my pc without losing the RAW image. Oh and my card reader is the reader from my printer "Picture MAte" right now i have it down loading the images of my card to just a file on my external harddrive.
Thanks for all your help ... I need it major.


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DavidW
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Jan 26, 2006 07:58 |  #13

If you're shooting RAW plus JPEG, the card will contain two files for each picture - one RAW and one JPEG (earlier Canon dSLRs embedded the JPEG in the RAW file).

It might be that the reader in your printer isn't a straightforward card reader - if so, that may explain what you're seeing. A USB 2.0 CompactFlash card reader is inexpensive, and would solve that problem.

Can you show us a screen grab of the "file" window so that we can see the problem? If using Windows, it would help to select Detail mode. Alt + PrtScn in Windows will grab the current window; such files are best attached as 8 bit PNG (PNG-8 in Photoshop). I've attached a screen grab showing a card from a 20D in RAW plus small JPEG mode in my card reader under Windows XP.

David


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SezzySue
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Jan 29, 2006 23:14 |  #14

Thanks to all of you, when I received my camera, I jumped right into RAW. If I had not I would probably be content with the origionals. I have played witht he programs a little ans here are a few of the results. CC on that thread please. Thanks so much!!!

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=133555


Sarah www.seibertphotography​.com (external link)

  
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