First wedding coming up: Critique my kit and approach?

hey guys,

I got a phone call today (hey, business cards work!)
a lady is looking for a photog for July 6. Previously she had a family member (a pro photog) signed up for it, but they had to bail because of a double-booking.

So their budget is $1,000 or less--as an unexpected expense.
I was thinking $700ish, as this would be my first official wedding.

It's outdoors, around 4pm so we'll have tons of light here--albeit afternoon light.

My thought was to look at a ton of good wedding albums/shots online, and make a shot list of quintessential shots (Ie: B&G w/her parents, w/his parents, w/siblings, rings on hands, all groomsman, all bridesmaids, etc etc) and go from there.

Current gear:
- Canon Rebel T3i with MagicLantern 2.3
- 2x 32gb Class 10 SD cards
- 4x batteries
- 50mm 1.4
- 17-85mm IS USM 4-5.6
- 2x 25W Cheapo Yake strobes (run on AC only) (no stands or umbrellas)
- Manfrotto Tripod


Questions:
- This couple is in a bad spot and not well-to-do, but I don't want to get into the trap of charging too little, as has been discussed on this board. Is $700 reasonable from both points of view? Especially given the late notice?
(I would only burn them a CD that they could print from--that's it.)

- I don't have a lot of cash myself, and I was thinking about getting umbrellas and stands--mostly to make use of my strobes for fill-light purposes because of the later-day harsh sunlight. In there something else I should invest in for this particular wedding? Is there a particular piece of equipment that I don't have that is going to royally hose me?


I'm nervous about this, and I have no delusions of grandeur. Above all, I want this family to get great photos for their money. I'm just glad for another chance to make money with a camera and not as a bartender.
thanks in advance!

First off you don't have a backup camera listed there

Are you ready to shoot a wedding ? Are you ready to have the responsibilities associated with working professionally ? Those seem like more important questions than whether or not the fee seems reasonable.

Not having seen your work, not knowing your background, it's impossible for me to judge.

If you are charging people anything at all then you should have backup gear at the very least. You would look pretty stupid charging someone $700 only for your camera to fail in the first 10 minutes of shooting meaning you cant take any more photos.

Chances are the camera wont fail but that's leaving things up to chance, cameras can and do randomly fail (we had one body fail on our very first paid wedding, thankfully we had 4 other bodies) and if you don't have a proper backup you are exposing yourself to very angry people on the wedding day and possible legal action afterwards.

You don't have a flash either and whilst not everyone uses flash the ones that do this well have a very good understanding of light.

Personally I wouldn't even employ you as a second shooter based on your equipment never mind paying you to shoot as a primary. First weddings are about much more than equipment of course but you at least need the basics before you start worrying about camera skills, organisation, communication etc.

rogue.guineapig wrote in post #16037712
hey guys,

So their budget is $1,000 or less--as an unexpected expense.
I was thinking $700ish, as this would be my first official wedding.

Once you accept money for your photography, expectations may shoot through the roof. It doesn't matter whether it's $700 or $7000. You are going to be the "hired gun" there. Make sure you set their expectations appropriately. Shoot for LOW and aim HIGH.

rogue.guineapig wrote in post #16037712
It's outdoors, around 4pm so we'll have tons of light here--albeit afternoon light.

- 2x 25W Cheapo Yake strobes (run on AC only) (no stands or umbrellas)

I would invest in better lighting equipment or you better pray for overcast skies or an expansive open shaded area.

rogue.guineapig wrote in post #16037712
My thought was to look at a ton of good wedding albums/shots online, and make a shot list of quintessential shots (Ie: B&G w/her parents, w/his parents, w/siblings, rings on hands, all groomsman, all bridesmaids, etc etc) and go from there.

What about portraits of the bride & groom by themselves?

rogue.guineapig wrote in post #16037712
Current gear:
- Canon Rebel T3i with MagicLantern 2.3
- 2x 32gb Class 10 SD cards
- 4x batteries
- 50mm 1.4
- 17-85mm IS USM 4-5.6
- Manfrotto Tripod

Gear looks fine for an outdoor wedding. As others have mentioned, you should get a backup camera.

rogue.guineapig wrote in post #16037712
Questions:
- This couple is in a bad spot and not well-to-do, but I don't want to get into the trap of charging too little, as has been discussed on this board. Is $700 reasonable from both points of view? Especially given the late notice?
(I would only burn them a CD that they could print from--that's it.)

- I don't have a lot of cash myself, and I was thinking about getting umbrellas and stands--mostly to make use of my strobes for fill-light purposes because of the later-day harsh sunlight. In there something else I should invest in for this particular wedding? Is there a particular piece of equipment that I don't have that is going to royally hose me?

In order to make money, you need so spend some money as well. If you don't have the cash and aren't properly equipped for it you are doing the couple a disservice. At least, that's the way I look at it. That said, as you said, the couple doesn't have loads of cash to spend on photography. $700 is already DIRT cheap. Perhaps not for someone who hasn't shot weddings before, but generally speaking, that's dirt cheap. Still, set expectations appropriately. I can't stress this enough.

I would rent a 580EXII or two and ditch the strobes.

rogue.guineapig wrote in post #16037712
I'm nervous about this, and I have no delusions of grandeur. Above all, I want this family to get great photos for their money. I'm just glad for another chance to make money with a camera and not as a bartender.
thanks in advance!

It's perfectly normal to be nervous. Take some of the advice here to make sure you give yourself the best chance to take good photos.

Backups are easy. Rent some backup equipment. Another T3i or a 60D are cheap to rent.

Rent a 17-55 2.8 IS lens and a 70-200 2.8 IS lens of you can swing it. Have one on each camera.

Lighting is a huge concern. You need to either rent or purchase some good speedlights and learn how to use them properly. And wedding day is not the time to learn how.

I would also suggest getting at least 2 more 32GB cards. I typically fill 4 to 5 32GB cards, and have even used 6 on occasion. Shoot and learn to process raw if you don't already.

It's ironic that often the toughest shooting conditions are also the cheapest. Midday outdoor weddings are popular because they are low cost for the bride/groom, but very difficult for photographers with little experience to get right. Upscale weddings tend to take place indoors at well-lit churches (of course not always) and receptions are held in expensive ballrooms.

Take the couple to a park at around the same time of day as the ceremony and practice shooting and balancing the light with flash. If this isn't possible, take a friend. Note your settings of the best results. Scout the wedding locations ahead of time to plan your lighting strategy.

I could shoot a wedding with your set of gear, but it would be far from the best I could deliver. I don't think you are properly equipped to be charging for weddings. Honestly.

I think the best approach would be to charge nothing and shoot it for experience. Or buy/rent a backup camera, some faster lenses, and at least two speedlites, practice your fricken ass off, then charge.

Judge Joe Brown just chewed someone out for using a basic camera and lens and calling themselves a pro... If it is your first wedding you better set the bride's expectations pretty low, even then, consider how she might feel if she looks anything less than a princess.


Tell them you are not a pro. Tell them to find a pro if that's what they want. Tell them you have no experience and do not have the equipment. Tell them you can't produce the quality a pro will deliver. Then do you best to deliver what a pro does...rent the right gear, learn to use it...then maybe if things work out right you will both be happy.

I think anyone can take pictures of anything, but you have to set the expectations correctly if you plan to come out of it feeling like a winner. I don't know of any bride that would appreciate bad pictures of their wedding day...unless its their forth wedding or something....

I agree with previous responses.
To prepare to be a professional wedding photographer requires more than looking at pictures online and making a list. Having professional equipment with back ups and the knowledge / experience to be able to use it in a high stress situation is expected by clients.
I am curious about your business card. Does it say pro wedding photographer?

I have no idea what your current level of expertise is. You may have experience with all the aspects of photography that is required to provide quality photographic coverage of a typical wedding. You may just have a camera. Either way, I would not take on a wedding of your own until you have worked a few weddings with a pro as an assistant or second shooter.

Weddings are tough, there are many professionals that won't touch them.

Be up front with your client and as Lloyd suggested, maybe shoot this one for free. Be sure to have a good contract and do not forget insurance.

hey guys,


I'll do my best to post answers info here...

memories of tomorrow:

I have access to a T2i I was going to bring along as backup--or if I rent a nicer cam,
I'd use my T3i as backup.


Christopher Stephen b:

Good question. I do work "professionally"...I'm a paid product and retail photog--albeit part time. So I'm used to giving a photo to a person who's paying for it and working like nuts to make sure it looks good for them. I do have a friend who does wonderful wedding work...but I'm not sure about her pricing. If it's close to my potential clients price range I was considering referring them to her. However, given how good she is, I highly doubt they're going to book her for under a grand.

jonwhite

From the advice here, I would get/rent one and shoot like crazy with it to learn it.

nicksan:

Absolutely.

I was going to scout the location this week for no other reason...I doubt the overcast will happen--this is Arizona.

My shot list is already probably 2 pages+ long...I was just posting examples, not an exhaustive list.
I would certainly MAKE an exhaustive list, but I figured very few would want to read through it.

Definitely!

That makes sense...a lot of sense. I mean on the one hand they're not able to afford super-photog.
On the other hand, I have no intention of giving them less then my best--and I certainly don't want to do them a disservice, even for dirt cheap.
But is my best even worth dirt-cheap? That's what I'm wrestling with: Could they go with someone else for that sub-$1000 and do better?

Thanks for the tip on 580...already looking at rentals. Also thanks for the expectations idea...
I've seen a few sub-$1000 wedding photos posted on FB recently, and my gosh they're awful.
I want to do better than that. A lot better.

ScullenCrossBones:

Definitely. That's why I'm asking...I wanted to get my kit finalized with a flash etc, and start practicing ASAP.

Can do. I only shoot RAW anymore.

Yes...I would definitely do this. I really don't wanna learn the settings the day-of. *shudder*

PictureCrazy:

That's a thought. Would it be inappropriate to say, "I'll do it for the cost of equipment rental"? I'm open to losing the time to gain the experience. Because of my own lack of funds it would be hard to rent $300 in gear on my own dime. I'm not saying it's not worth it--I'm just saying that would seriously kink the rent and food for the month.

agl99:

Indeed... I feel that this is a big bite to chew...that's why I'm asking the questions.
That's good advice...I think I will definitely tell them this. On the other hand, in this price range what are they going to find? I want to be able to say, "Well for the amount you are going to spend, this is what you can expect--no matter who you choose". What should they expect in that range (whether its me shooting or not)?

jimconnerphoto:

No, hell no.

I shoot a few hundred pictures a week in a product studio. I often do other types of shoots--
land scape, night, pets, candid, etc...just not weddings.

That's what scares me: that better men than I won't do them.
What kind of insurance are you referring to, and what would it cover?


Thanks all for the advice... I have a much better idea of what I can tell this lady, and hopefully find a way to help her, or to get her to someone who can really do justice for her budget.

Why do you have strobes if you don't have stands? You'd shoot a wedding with a hacked camera? Backups, backups backups. Where are the flashes? I take four plus two strobes to a wedding. You don't have a wide angle lens, essential for some weddings, especially lower end ones with smaller venues. In sunny climates that's where I depend on my flashes most - strobes more than hotshoe, but they'd do in a pinch. No fast lens, even a 2.8.

I think you should shoot for free with that gear, or charge say $500 and rent a 5D3 and 24-70.

Also, go do a half dozen portrait sessions between now and then. Post each one for constructive critique. Do you know how to pose people? Do you know when to leave them unposed? Have you ever thought about where hands go, feet go? Backgrounds, light positions? Do you know the most important thing is your relationship with your subjects?

rogue.guineapig wrote in post #16039257
hey guys,
That's what scares me: that better men than I won't do them.
What kind of insurance are you referring to, and what would it cover?

You will definitely want a contract. You'd also want liability insurance and perhaps equipment insurance. Liability would be the priority though. For example, if someone trips on a light stand and hurts himself/herself or causes damages to property, etc, you would be covered. Make sure you tie up all loose ends. All it takes is one incident to ruin your life.

That said, I'm sure that there are loads of photographers taking a gamble and just winging it. Some venues require vendors to have liability insurance though and of course just like any other insurance it's one of those things where you hopefully never have to use it but are thankful that you have it when something goes wrong.

As for shooting for equipment rental, that's a common barter method. Perhaps better than an outright payment, although they will still be paying for something so there will be some expectation. That's just human nature.

Hire a second shooter too. Nice to have piece of mind.

Make sure you have a SOLID contract with a few disclaimers too HA !!! Nick beat me to the punch !!!


Good luck

It's true that for some portions of the day, a photographer can get away with playing passive (even if that really isn't a creative decision by the photographer). But as Tim points out, the portraits with the bride, the B&G photos and the group photos all REQUIRE that you are extraordinarily active. If you are not in an active mode during this portion of the day (ie. adjust something if it requires adjusting; knowing where to shoot; knowing what light to look for; identifying how to coax certain expressions, recognize when a subject needs encouragement, feedback etc.) then here is where you will fail hard.

Take Tim's advice about shooting a bunch of portraits over the next few weeks. It can get incredibly lonely and frightening when dozens of people are looking to you as the professional to be active in the ways I mentioned. A few sessions won't get you totally over that challenge (hell--after 60 weddings I'm not over it yet !); but it will absolutely help.

Current gear:
- Canon Rebel T3i with MagicLantern 2.3 Good camera
- 2x 32gb Class 10 SD cards You need more cards. What if one fails?
- 4x batteries GREAT !!!!
- 50mm 1.4 Good lens to have
- 17-85mm IS USM 4-5.6 A good lens with decent range
- 2x 25W Cheapo Yake strobes (run on AC only) (no stands or umbrellas) Not useful
- Manfrotto Tripod Do not use it on your first wedding


You need more stuff to shoot... A lens with reach" 70 to 200" .. a scrim (you need an assistant for this "
You will need a few flashes..of course an extra camera body... You will need another back up lens too.