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Thread started 17 Jun 2013 (Monday) 22:54
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Ball Lightning?

 
shinksma
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Jun 17, 2013 22:54 |  #1

Tonight there was a nice big storm rolling into the Orlando area. As I drove home I could see how massive the extent was, and realized there was no leading edge of rain just yet. Once I got home I went outside figuring there may be an opportunity to capture some interesting lightning shots. Mounted my Rokinon 8mm FE to my T3i, mounted the T3i to a tripod, and outside I went.

The majority of the shots looked like this:

IMAGE: http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/shinksma/Moon%20and%20Sky/BallLightningNight/IMG_1542_1024_zps1d7a2028.jpg

10 sec exposure, ISO 800, probably f/8. That is a plane on approach to Orlando Exec Airport - they fly overhead a fair bit in this exact pattern.

I took many shots of various exposures and apertures and ISOs, playing around with longer captures to see how the sky looked compared to quick snaps that were only a half-second long. No bolts of lightning, just cloud-to-cloud "heat lightning", I guess it's called.

But then I caught these two orange-colored blobs, looking almost like helicopter search lights, traveling along in rough formation, with a slower-than-helicopter pace, and not a uniform pace - kind of meandering, like wafting on a breeze. This is the whole shot, where you can see one of them (the other is behind a tree):

IMAGE: http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/shinksma/Moon%20and%20Sky/BallLightningNight/IMG_1589_1024_zps46e3ea7f.jpg

Here's a close up, where you can see that second blob:

IMAGE: http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/shinksma/Moon%20and%20Sky/BallLightningNight/IMG_1589crop_zps1d906334.jpg

Here is a later shot (28 seconds later, according to timestamps):

IMAGE: http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/shinksma/Moon%20and%20Sky/BallLightningNight/IMG_1609_1024_zpsf600501c.jpg

And here is a multi-layer of a collection of the images I took:

IMAGE: http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/shinksma/Moon%20and%20Sky/BallLightningNight/LayersShots_everyfour_zps9961ac31.jpg

This is one out of every four of a series of shots from one POV, eight shots total. I took about 36 shots in total, from three different camera angles, including a few shots from a view where I didn't even realize I captured them in the photo until later.

Sorry for posting a fifth image, but I thought they were all needed to help demonstrate the context. You will note that the blobs are in the general vicinity of the aircraft in the first photo of this post, but not moving in the same direction. The tree just to the right of the airplane trail is the same tree to the upper left of the pergola in the "blob" photos - you can see a tiny bit of the pergola in the airplane trail shot.

The movement of these objects was left to right from my perspective, and moving away from me - net direction was to the east, and the storm was moving in from the west. The cloud cover was fairly low - an aircraft on approach to Orlando Exec was hidden by cloud about 5 minutes earlier. Approach altitude above ground seems to usually be about 2000-2500 ft at my location, I would guess, which is consistent with a typical IFR approach. So these blobs were probably no higher than that, or else they would have been lost in the clouds.

All shots are at f/3.5, and 0.5 sec exposure, ISO 1600 for earlier shots and 3200 for the later ones. These are all SOOC jpgs, with only a resize for Web and my watermark added, except the multi-layer, which has several layers fiddled with brightness and contrast. (I need to figure out a good way to layer these images...any suggestions?)

No, I didn't ingest or inhale anything strange tonight, and anyway, these are the shots.

At first I was trying to figure out what they were by thinking of helicopters - but no way would the Orange County Sheriff be out with that storm coming in, and there was no chopper noise anyway. I thought they might be some kind of flare, but who would shoot up a flare? And anyway, they didn't slowly drop like a flare - they just floated. Timestamp of the first photo where I can see them is 9:39:42pm, last shot I took was at 9:41:06pm.

I have more, if folks are interested. Or browse my photobucket where I have more (not all posted there yet - I didn't think my photobucket needed them all right away, but I'll stuff more there if you like).

I wish I had thought to also take outside with me a second body with my with my 70-200 or 100-400 mounted, but on the other hand, to my naked eye there was no structure, so it might not have shown anything other than a larger blob.

shinksma

5DII | T3i | EF 17-40 L | EF 24-105 L | EF 24 1.4 L II | EF 28 1.8 | EF 85 1.8 | EF 70-200 2.8 L IS II | EF 100-400 L | EF-S 15-85 IS USM | EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS USM | EF-S 10-22 USM | EF 100 2.8 Macro USM | EF-S 18-55 IS | EF 35-80 III | EF-S 55-250 IS | Rokinon 8mm FE | EF 75-300 non-USM III | SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4 | Tamron 70-210 | 430EX II | Kenko 2x MC4 and 1.4x Pro300DGX TC

  
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clippo
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Jun 18, 2013 05:43 |  #2

interesting shots.... could be chinese lanterns....




  
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Ianfp
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Jun 18, 2013 06:48 |  #3

Until identified, it must be a UFO! :)


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shinksma
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Jun 18, 2013 22:40 |  #4

Here's a better layered shot: I took one of the shots with a nicer sky background, and added, layer by layer, each of the blobs from the other photos in the sequence. Adjust each basic photo for brightness and contrast to optimize for appearance of blob and even out ISO differences. Add Layer Mask, disable layer mask, paint blob area in layer mask, enable layer mask, erase to clean up if needed, repeat ad nauseum. :~( Gotta be a better way, but the trees were moving in the breeze, so they get a bit blurred out if I include them, and if I average out the sky it gets pretty bland looking too...

IMAGE: http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/shinksma/Moon%20and%20Sky/BallLightningNight/LayeredShot-1614Base_1024_zps190552b2.jpg

And a crop / close-up of the area of interest:

IMAGE: http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab246/shinksma/Moon%20and%20Sky/BallLightningNight/LayeredShot-1614Base-2048x2048crop_1024_zps10c70b21.jpg

The gap is where the camera buffer filled up, and I let it catch up.

If they were chinese lanterns, they drifted down from the clouds - the first shot in which they appear they are up quite high, and they didn't seem to drift into the frame. And they were awfully bright lanterns - not as nearly bright as a helicopter spot/search light, but not a candle or two either...

shinksma

5DII | T3i | EF 17-40 L | EF 24-105 L | EF 24 1.4 L II | EF 28 1.8 | EF 85 1.8 | EF 70-200 2.8 L IS II | EF 100-400 L | EF-S 15-85 IS USM | EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS USM | EF-S 10-22 USM | EF 100 2.8 Macro USM | EF-S 18-55 IS | EF 35-80 III | EF-S 55-250 IS | Rokinon 8mm FE | EF 75-300 non-USM III | SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4 | Tamron 70-210 | 430EX II | Kenko 2x MC4 and 1.4x Pro300DGX TC

  
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Todd ­ Lambert
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Jun 18, 2013 22:44 |  #5

I would guess that they are aircraft, and just covered by cloud cover, so not readily identifiable like your first image.




  
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shinksma
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Jun 19, 2013 07:22 |  #6

Todd Lambert wrote in post #16044042 (external link)
I would guess that they are aircraft, and just covered by cloud cover, so not readily identifiable like your first image.

No, I know what aircraft look like, and these didn't move like aircraft. Plus, they are just tiny blobs, no flashing strobe lights, no port/starboard red/green lights - as you can see in that first shot, the plane has quite a size, with the short dots on each side being the wingtip strobe lights - and that's just a business jet, like a LearJet. And there was no sound associated with them - the choppers and planes that fly overhead are quite obvious from their noise, even before you see them.

Based on their size and presumed maximum distance (about a mile, assuming height-above-ground of 2500ft, which was based on my observation of cloud deck), they would be no more than a meter (3 feet) in diameter - smaller if not as far away.

An extremely bright chinese lantern (say, 150W bulb bright) would be a fine explanation. However, even though that would be a physical match, that doesn't seem like a plausible match.

I dunno, a natural storm-based phenomenon seems the most likely explanation to me.

shinksma


5DII | T3i | EF 17-40 L | EF 24-105 L | EF 24 1.4 L II | EF 28 1.8 | EF 85 1.8 | EF 70-200 2.8 L IS II | EF 100-400 L | EF-S 15-85 IS USM | EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS USM | EF-S 10-22 USM | EF 100 2.8 Macro USM | EF-S 18-55 IS | EF 35-80 III | EF-S 55-250 IS | Rokinon 8mm FE | EF 75-300 non-USM III | SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4 | Tamron 70-210 | 430EX II | Kenko 2x MC4 and 1.4x Pro300DGX TC

  
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Todd ­ Lambert
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Jun 19, 2013 08:45 |  #7

They sure look like they move like aircraft to me, or at least some sort of manmade objects. Lightning or any other natural phenomenon doesn't move in a consistent line like that, especially twice.

Just because you couldn't see the red greens or blinking, doesn't mean it's not aircraft. Especially in thick cloud cover. The objects could have been at quite a distance from you (hence why you didn't hear anything) and at such an angle and with clouds, your camera picked them up, but they don't appear like a plane.

Sorry, I just highly doubt that this is ball lightning, and I think your guesses to the size of the objects and the height are really irrelevant, because object at distance, in storm clouds, at night, can be awfully deceiving.

Whether it's planes or not, it's hard to tell, but Orange County has LOTs of different air traffic and what you're showing in these images, to me... is not natural and is definitely manmade.




  
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Todd ­ Lambert
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Jun 19, 2013 08:53 |  #8

I couldn't tell from your postings, did you actually observe these object by your eyes, or did you discover them once looking at the images?




  
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shinksma
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Jun 19, 2013 09:06 |  #9

I observed with my eyes. I had been keeping my eyes peeled for aircraft flying over, since they make interesting arcs on long exposures. When I saw these two objects, I immediately re-targeted the camera on the tripod to capture that zone of the sky and started clicking away.

To the naked eye I could discern no structure or shape in either object beyond a "fuzzy blob" - not a point source, not a sharply-defined "sphere" with a solid surface, not as big as an aircraft.

I tracked them visually for the entire time I took the photos (the advantage of a fisheye is not needing to track the movement of the camera via the eyepiece, I guess). They did not have the typical constant velocity movement of a fixed wing aircraft, and did not have the movement I have observed for rotary wing aircraft, such as the Sheriff's Dept helos they fly around every now and then - and there was a recent night event where the Sheriff's helo was looking for a suspect nearby that I had the chance to observe, so I had fresh memories of what a circling chopper with search/spotlight looks like.

Floating on a breeze is the most accurate description of their movements I can think of.

shinksma


5DII | T3i | EF 17-40 L | EF 24-105 L | EF 24 1.4 L II | EF 28 1.8 | EF 85 1.8 | EF 70-200 2.8 L IS II | EF 100-400 L | EF-S 15-85 IS USM | EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS USM | EF-S 10-22 USM | EF 100 2.8 Macro USM | EF-S 18-55 IS | EF 35-80 III | EF-S 55-250 IS | Rokinon 8mm FE | EF 75-300 non-USM III | SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4 | Tamron 70-210 | 430EX II | Kenko 2x MC4 and 1.4x Pro300DGX TC

  
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Numenorean
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Jun 19, 2013 09:08 |  #10

IMAGE NOT FOUND
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Todd ­ Lambert
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Jun 19, 2013 09:34 |  #11

Hmmm... interesting that you were able to see it by naked eye. Still don't know, the fact that they move in consistent pattern, means manmade to me. Now, what exactly they were, is definitely a mystery though. Could be drones?

Numenorean wrote in post #16044922 (external link)
IMAGE NOT FOUND
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I love that guy!




  
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shinksma
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Jun 19, 2013 10:35 |  #12

Todd Lambert wrote in post #16044994 (external link)
Hmmm... interesting that you were able to see it by naked eye. Still don't know, the fact that they move in consistent pattern, means manmade to me. Now, what exactly they were, is definitely a mystery though. Could be drones?

I can't imagine drones being permitted to fly in the approach path to the exec airport, especially in IFR conditions (these objects moved through the same airspace as, or just below, that of the aircraft flying by in that first photo). Plus, from what I know about drones (that I might be able to discuss in a public forum ;)), they don't have this type of lighting.

As for moving in a consistent pattern - the suggestion of chinese lanterns matches the observed "drifting but somewhat formation-like" movement. Two objects floating freely in the air are going to move roughly in the same direction and the same speed, much like a pair of balloons released on a breezy day. Also note that they did not move in lock-step formation - one drifted a bit faster than the other, then the second would catch up a bit, as might be expected in the wind. Speaking of which, I'm not aware of weather balloons being illuminated this way - yes, I considered that possibility.

shinksma


5DII | T3i | EF 17-40 L | EF 24-105 L | EF 24 1.4 L II | EF 28 1.8 | EF 85 1.8 | EF 70-200 2.8 L IS II | EF 100-400 L | EF-S 15-85 IS USM | EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS USM | EF-S 10-22 USM | EF 100 2.8 Macro USM | EF-S 18-55 IS | EF 35-80 III | EF-S 55-250 IS | Rokinon 8mm FE | EF 75-300 non-USM III | SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4 | Tamron 70-210 | 430EX II | Kenko 2x MC4 and 1.4x Pro300DGX TC

  
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Todd ­ Lambert
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Jun 19, 2013 11:32 |  #13

Well, they could also be some sort of weather balloon or experiment. Heck, they could be local kids with a remote control gyrocopter, who knows.

I just don't think they are naturally occurring is my main point, I guess. I'll stay posted in case you do find that you've discovered alien life or some new phenomenon, just in case!




  
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shinksma
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Jun 19, 2013 12:15 |  #14

Ball lightning isn't a new phenomenon - it is just so rare and unpredictable, and not understood physically, so that there is very little familiarity with it for most people. I was just reading that only 5% of the US population in 1960 had seen ball lightning (Wikipedia). I had never seen it before, and don't expect to see it again.

http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Ball_lightning (external link)

So the question isn't whether there is a physical phenomenon that explains my observations, but rather, did I see that particular physical phenomenon or something else instead?

shinksma


5DII | T3i | EF 17-40 L | EF 24-105 L | EF 24 1.4 L II | EF 28 1.8 | EF 85 1.8 | EF 70-200 2.8 L IS II | EF 100-400 L | EF-S 15-85 IS USM | EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS USM | EF-S 10-22 USM | EF 100 2.8 Macro USM | EF-S 18-55 IS | EF 35-80 III | EF-S 55-250 IS | Rokinon 8mm FE | EF 75-300 non-USM III | SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4 | Tamron 70-210 | 430EX II | Kenko 2x MC4 and 1.4x Pro300DGX TC

  
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Todd ­ Lambert
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Jun 19, 2013 13:40 |  #15

I'm familiar with ball lightning, I just don't think that's what this was. However, I wasn't there and I didn't see it.

I just think that the fact it moved in a fashion that is consistent with a man-made object(whatever that may be) is enough evidence to question whether this was, ball lightning.

It's very interesting, nonetheless. 8-)




  
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