Canon EOS 70D officially announced!

mojodawg wrote in post #16161276
The raw shot buffer is 16 frames on a 60D and 15 frames on a 7D.

Er, try 25 frames.

mojodawg wrote in post #16161200
Ok. Two extra AF modes. The rest is negligible.
The 70D has...
- A whole new AF system, which actually makes taking video usable. Tracking someone or something with manual focusing is ridiculous.
-Digic 5+ processor
- Touchscreen. (Looked at it on a t5i and I find this faster to make changes)
- Articulating screen
- Wifi
- In-camera HDR
- Remote control from phone or tablet
- Expanded ISO range

So again, why would anyone want to purchase a 7D over a 70D right now?
I believe they should have come out with a 7dm2 first because they cannibalized the 7D with the 70D.

Hollis - As far as image quality...I wouldn't expect much better than the current crop sensor. Anything better would be a bonus, but why does everyone seem to think they will get 6D quality in a camera like this? Give it up. If you care that much about IQ, go to full frame.

The swivel screen is a disadvantage for me. For my reasons, read the last 10-20 pages of this thread, not going down that road again because people don't seem to accept an opinion that doesn't stroke with theirs. For birding or sports photography I would pick the 7D over the 70D anytime. The RAW buffer size difference is BIG (16 pictures for the 70D vs 25 pictures for the 7D). Combine that with 1 FPS extra for the 7D and two extra AF modes and the answer is simple. The 7D still has its place, but its sales will take a hit now. I still think that Canon will add the 2 missing AF modes to the 70D via a firmware update once the 7D2 is out (or announced).

That being said, if I had to pick one of the two tomorrow, I would probably go for the 70D almost solely for the built-in WiFi.

mojodawg wrote in post #16161400
So do you think the AF and the IQ will not be improved with the new sensor?

I do not know. And neither do you. You base your argument on wishful thinking.

Apart from video, I'm pretty sure that the 70D's AF will not be up to the high standard of the 7D. But, as with IQ, nobody can be sure until real units get into the hands of independent, intelligent reviewers.

mojodawg wrote in post #16161400
Ha. I forgot to account for the poppycockses and the balderdasheries. Those two features alone make the 7D worth buying over the 70D.

So do you think the AF and the IQ will not be improved with the new sensor? I mean if Canon wants to hand over the business to Nikon, thats a good recipe. I made my statement based on published features and that alone makes the 70D a better buy. Better IQ and AF would be a slam dunk.

what also makes the 70D worth the buy over the 7D is the size and weight, I held some DSLRs recently from some local photographers.

Thinking about it now the 7D isnt really that big, yes I held it in my hands, though the 70D using comparison pics is smaller and specs say its lighter and it suppose to perform almost as good as the 7D

I would prefer that camera for its size and weight for the performance!

mojodawg wrote in post #16161276
The raw shot buffer is 16 frames on a 60D and 15 frames on a 7D. The difference is that the CF can clear faster than an SD, however, SD has made some significant improvements over the last couple of years.

Anyway if the sports guy can't get his shot in 15-16 frames, he should be shooting video.

Raw buffer on the 7D is now 25 frames wih the new firmware btw, but I have to agree that a continuous spray of over 15 frames would have me reevaluating my technique.

hollis_f wrote in post #16161431
I do not know. And neither do you. You base your argument on wishful thinking.

Apart from video, I'm pretty sure that the 70D's AF will not be up to the high standard of the 7D. But, as with IQ, nobody can be sure until real units get into the hands of independent, intelligent reviewers.

Like I said, I am not arguing AF & IQ, just published features. Not wishful thinking. I think people get their hopes up too much with IQ and should not expect much over the 60D. Everyone wants full frame IQ in a crop sensor. Not gonna happen.

But if I were to wager a guess, I would think AF should definitely be improved because that is what this whole new AF technology is about and it should just not be improved for video alone. As for IQ, probably not going to notice much if anything over the 60D.

mojodawg wrote in post #16160157
I disagree. The 70D makes the 7D obsolete imo. They match up in key specs and the 70D has more features. Aside from the 100% viewfinder coverage and build material, what else is there to the 7D that gives it the upper hand?

Spot focus. Expanded point focus. 8 FPS instead of 7. Buffer size. Dedicated autofocus processor (which may or may not matter here, depending on how good Canon's multithreading in their firmware is, as well as the relative processor speeds of the DIGIC 4 versus DIGIC 5+ as regards the parts of the instruction set that are used for the autofocus algorithms and other operations that occur at the same time. That "17x" figure bandied about is almost certainly just marketing fluff). 100% viewfinder coverage (yeah, you said it, but the way you said it suggests that you underestimate its usefulness, and you shouldn't). Separate joystick for autofocus point selection and other operations.

There are other things that are unknown at this point and may come out in the 7D's favor, e.g. the degree to which the autofocus can be customized.


The 70D has some advantages of its own, of course.


If the performance of the imaging sensor is essentially the same, as I expect it to be, then it'll come down to features and handling, and I expect that the 7D will eke out a win for birding and action, while being about the same (just different in some respects) for other types of photography.

The 70D will be clearly better for video, but if it's video you really want, then DSLRs are horrible regardless because the ergonomics just aren't designed for it. Camcorders are the way to go for that.

jocau wrote in post #16161425
The swivel screen is a disadvantage for me. For my reasons, read the last 10-20 pages of this thread, not going down that road again because people don't seem to accept an opinion that doesn't stroke with theirs. For birding or sports photography I would pick the 7D over the 70D anytime. The RAW buffer size difference is BIG (16 pictures for the 70D vs 25 pictures for the 7D). Combine that with 1 FPS extra for the 7D and two extra AF modes and the answer is simple. The 7D still has its place, but its sales will take a hit now. I still think that Canon will add the 2 missing AF modes to the 70D via a firmware update once the 7D2 is out (or announced).

That being said, if I had to pick one of the two tomorrow, I would probably go for the 70D almost solely for the built-in WiFi.

I did read some of your posts and I see your points. I happen to be in the camp of liking the swivel. I have a t2i and I have used a 60D. The swivel adds some bulk and its another thing that can break, but I do like taking the shots from odd angles (like on the ground) without getting down and dirty. I also like it for the video of course because the flexibility. It all comes down to a preference thing and how you use the camera.

mojodawg wrote in post #16161457
Like I said, I am not arguing AF & IQ, just published features. Not wishful thinking. I think people get their hopes up too much with IQ and should not expect much over the 60D. Everyone wants full frame IQ in a crop sensor. Not gonna happen.

But if I were to wager a guess, I would think AF should definitely be improved because that is what this whole new AF technology is about and it should just not be improved for video alone. As for IQ, probably not going to notice much if anything over the 60D.

Well it depends on if Canon is allowing the feedback from the rotation detectors in new lenses to be read from the 70D like in the 5D3 and 1Dx. If so I would expect AF accuracy of the 70D to be much better than the 7D in the modes that both cameras have:

http://www.lensrentals​.com …ity-part-3b-canon-cameras

As far as the new dual pixel AF, that is a completely different AF mode than phase detect TTV and makes no difference when using the viewfinder.

kcbrown wrote in post #16161464
Spot focus. Expanded point focus. 8 FPS instead of 7. Buffer size. Dedicated autofocus processor (which may or may not matter here, depending on how good Canon's multithreading in their firmware is, as well as the relative processor speeds of the DIGIC 4 versus DIGIC 5+ as regards the parts of the instruction set that are used for the autofocus algorithms and other operations that occur at the same time. That "17x" figure bandied about is almost certainly just marketing fluff). 100% viewfinder coverage (yeah, you said it, but the way you said it suggests that you underestimate its usefulness, and you shouldn't). Separate joystick for autofocus point selection and other operations.

There are other things that are unknown at this point and may come out in the 7D's favor, e.g. the degree to which the autofocus can be customized.


The 70D has some advantages of its own, of course.


If the performance of the imaging sensor is essentially the same, as I expect it to be, then it'll come down to features and handling, and I expect that the 7D will eke out a win for birding and action, while being about the same (just different in some respects) for other types of photography.

The 70D will be clearly better for video, but if it's video you really want, then DSLRs are horrible regardless because the ergonomics just aren't designed for it. Camcorders are the way to go for that.

True, but the last thing I want to lug around is another piece of hardware just for video. I like taking shots of my kid at soccer and I like taking video clips too. I refrain from video all the time because of the lack of continuos AF in this type of environment. I would probably use the video feature a lot more on the 70D.

So if you were go on to canon's web site and buy a new body today, would you choose the 70D for $1199 or the 7D for $1499?

kcbrown wrote in post #16161464
The 70D has some advantages of its own, of course.
The 70D will be clearly better for video, but if it's video you really want, then DSLRs are horrible regardless because the ergonomics just aren't designed for it. Camcorders are the way to go for that.

I used to agree with this but if you want to make cinematic type videos with shallow DOF or dont want to carry around a DSLR and a camcorder then I think this new AF for the 70d will make the DSLR useful for video. FINALLY.

kcbrown wrote in post #16161464
The 70D will be clearly better for video, but if it's video you really want, then DSLRs are horrible regardless because the ergonomics just aren't designed for it. Camcorders are the way to go for that.

Yes and no. I could buy a camcorder to record video, but why not use a DSLR with a $1000 lens on it, that I already own? Going further, the artsy shallow dof requires a dslr.

But that's what separates the pros from the enthusiasts. Different markets, different needs.

FEChariot wrote in post #16161505
Well it depends on if Canon is allowing the feedback from the rotation detectors in new lenses to be read from the 70D like in the 5D3 and 1Dx. If so I would expect AF accuracy of the 70D to be much better than the 7D in the modes that both cameras have:

http://www.lensrentals​.com …ity-part-3b-canon-cameras

As far as the new dual pixel AF, that is a completely different AF mode than phase detect TTV and makes no difference when using the viewfinder.

Good point and great article. Shows the importance that lens/body matching makes on AF.

Since I currently own a 7D, the small advantages it has over the 70D is enough to prevent me switching despite some nice additional features that I would like. I await the 7D2 with anticipation, now that might make me change.

They already have an 8D in the works.... Why not wait for the 10D?