5DIII - do you miss the built in flash?

Nathan wrote in post #16112425
Who's upset? Just a little disagreement.

To me, the statement "Sorry, but this is complete BS" implied that he was a bit upset lol.

Anyway we're all friends here. Sorry if I caused any offence, I was just trying to be helpful honestly.

I think if you've got a pop up flash and you use it when there is nothing else available then fine, who's complaining? But most people I know on here or elsewhere who are serious about photography would take a speedlite with them for fill even if they did have a popup flash on their 5Ds. For the very same reasons I've given before.

I'd suggest looking at something like the Canon 270 EX if you want something small just for fill.

I'm very happy that after moving on from the 7D, whose pop up flash I did occasionally use (always with horrible results), I started to learn what can be done with proper flash units.

At first I thought the 5Diii's much better high ISO performance meant I wouldn't be needing flash at all. It was some gorgeous examples on this forum which made me realise flash need not be horrible, and really is necessary in some situations as well as very beneficial in others. The extra weight of even a 600 ex-RT now seems like a small price to pay for the results which can be achieved with it.

Just the other day I was talking to someone contemplating her first DSLR, she said she didn't like flash which is exactly what I used to think. I suggested she was used to the look of pop up flash & tried to persuade her how much better the real thing can be... she was still very sceptical but will hopefully become a convert.

No I don't miss the pop up flash at all, in fact I'm very glad to see it gone!

(Not trying to argue with those who say pop up can be used as daytime fill with good results. I didn't try that when I had the 7d, only used it in low light).

Ive never had any luck using a pop up flash for daytime fill, the shutter speed is locked too low IME.

I don't miss it, seldom used it on my 650d and 7D.

mike_foyle wrote in post #16113053
I was just trying to be helpful honestly.

But most people I know on here or elsewhere who are serious about photography would take a speedlite with them for fill even if they did have a popup flash on their 5Ds.

Perhaps that's why some people are "upset." I think everyone who is posting is trying to be helpful. Stating that you are implies that they are not. They're just trying to point out that your prescription is not absolute. Even if they were not diplomatic in how they conveyed that, I tend to agree with them. I'm not saying Canon should introduce a pop-up flash onto the 5D. The OP's question was merely if people ever miss it... simple answer: sure. Are there better alternatives or ways around it... certainly.

Supposing that people who are serious about photography would bring with them a speedlite for fill also makes a broad generalization that cannot be applied in all circumstances. I could bring all of my gear "just in case" I need it... but it doesn't make me less serious when I decide that I need to carry less. At minimum, I need a body and lens. As person who is "serious" about photography, I only add to my ability and skillset by understanding what can/should be used and when... and improvising when I have to. Learning and knowing means that I don't have to carry every piece of gear I own every time I go out. It's that process that makes me serious about photography... not whether I have my speedlite on me.

Perhaps that's why you struck a chord with some people. Most people here on this board are serious about photography. If not, then why would they be here? They are serious about it, but their level of knowledge is not all equal. Making statements to beginners that flash or pop-up flash should be avoided at all costs is not helpful to them. If they listen to that advice, then they may never understand to control lighting conditions to their advantage. That's the disservice that I think I would get upset about.

If I were upset, I would let you know. I'm only disappointed by the misleading info that you're propagating online, and negatively influencing those that may not know better.

Now I'm lazy, and don't know when a lens hood will interfere with a built-in flash? I'm shocked that you can be so condescending, yet so dense that you don't even realize it.

mike_foyle wrote in post #16112014
Again, you got upset - sorry I don't know quite how but I think you miss interpreted what I meant to be helpful advice. Perhaps you got out of the wrong side of the bed, if so I'm sorry about that and I hope you didn't hurt yourself.

If you can be bothered to lug around a big camera and a decent prime lens, but a little off camera flash is too much for you to manage then I feel rather sorry for you. I think my point was that if you require the high quality that the 5D iii provides, you maybe aught to consider investing some effort into your trade to back it up rather than, quite frankly, being lazy!

Most lenses that I use, in my limited experience of using on board flashes, block half the flash's output because the hood is in it's way. I think the assumption is probably that if you are using a large, full frame camera you are likely to want to use some of these lenses. It would be some what of a design conundrum if the built in flash could only be used with a small selection of the lenses which are likely to be used with the camera. I really don't see the problem with taking a small hotshoe flash around with you at the very least.

I'm staggered that my post managed to upset not one but two people. That wasn't my intention at all. I'm a friendly guy and extremely down to earth. I wasn't trying to be patronising I was trying to be helpful.

Anyway enough said... At the end of the day it doesnt have a built in flash and most people arent complaining

Also for the record, I'm quite comfortable with how it works. I'm not sure where that assumption came from. But if I do need someone to hold my hand next time I use a flash, I'll come and ask you for your expert advice

Even when I had my 40D, that flash never saw the light of day... or the dark of night, which would I guess be more on topic.

I have owned my 7D for over 2 years. I don't remember ever using the built-in flash.

So I don't think I would miss mine.

When I need flash it is Speedlite 580 ex II. I love that flash.

I think it is a bit of elitism, myself included. There is a consensus that popup flash equates to complete noob. We tend to see over-blown on body flash shots and also equate it to inexperience. So when the popup flash is mentioned, it is associated with horrible shots by default. Using a speed light implies more experience and better shots.

correct, it uses ETTL or you can use FEC. For me, I get better luck from using the flash in manual mode vs. ETTL. The difference as I see it is I can control the angle and flash power. Yes, I can't bounce it off the sky, but I can bounce off water or angle the head for a bit of a softer effect.

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #16113588
I think it is a bit of elitism, myself included. There is a consensus that popup flash equates to complete noob. We tend to see over-blown on body flash shots and also equate it to inexperience. So when the popup flash is mentioned, it is associated with horrible shots by default. Using a speed light implies more experience and better shots.

correct, it uses ETTL or you can use FEC. For me, I get better luck from using the flash in manual mode vs. ETTL. The difference as I see it is I can control the angle and flash power. Yes, I can't bounce it off the sky, but I can bounce off water or angle the head for a bit of a softer effect.

This
I can throw on a flashbender or some other device to increase the apparent light source of an external flash. I can move it away from the hotshoe via cable or trigger, I can use a bracket if I wish to relocate the shadows. What I dont have to do is use a terrible little underpowered light so close to the lens that many hoods create a shadow on the subject. Maybe its elitism, but its informed elitism.

99.9% of the time, my camera is mounted on a tripod. I always shoot with available light since I really only photograph cityscapes and landscapes. So I definitely do not miss the built in flash.

gonzogolf wrote in post #16113624
This
[/B] I can throw on a flashbender or some other device to increase the apparent light source of an external flash. I can move it away from the hotshoe via cable or trigger, I can use a bracket if I wish to relocate the shadows. What I dont have to do is use a terrible little underpowered light so close to the lens that many hoods create a shadow on the subject. Maybe its elitism, but its informed elitism.

I don't think the question was ever if there are better options than the pop-up flash.

Nope... never missed the flash on my 5D, 5DMII or 5DMIII...

How come my camera doesn't come with a pop up flash? They must have missed installing one on mine

Very sorry guys. Didn't mean to upset anyone. That wasn't my intention at all. Sad that I've somehow managed to do that. If my advice was poor then I'm sorry for that too.