Pro Photography.

Once upon a time on one would consider buying an SLR camera and setting themselves up as a professional photographer. Not that there weren't bad photographers in business but it seemed you needed at least a minimal photographic understanding before you could set up even as a part timers.

These days it seems there is need for ANY knowlege in order to set up as a pro photographer. No barriers at all. It is no wonder to me that in this current age photography has come to have zero value to many.

What brought on this rant you might ask? Well over in the Post processing forum I saw the following question asked. To paraphrase. I have sent a CD of images to a client so that they can get them printed (yeah I know I shouldn't now). Anyway the client is complaining that the heads are being cut off in all the images. Help whats going on?

As the thread progresses it becomes clear that the OP has zero understanding of even the basics of different aspect ratios for different print sizes, or even of the difference between the concepts of cropping and resizing images. Now I know that we all have to learn, even the basics, but surely one should have masterd the basics before one starts to offer "professional" or even commercial services? Did the fact that 30 years ago even a basic 35mm SLR cost close on to the equivalent then of £5000 now than the £500 for a basic xxxD make folk less inclined to make stupid decisions?

Alan

I thought the same thing about that thread.

I've noticed many pro photographers in my area (NYC) are very upset on craigslist because so many amateurs are saturating the market with discount shoots and free shoots. It got to the point where people were soliciting photographers for free/discounted work worth several hundred dollars. I think it's partially because so many look at pictures and tutorials thinking "I can do that" and "Oh, anyone can aim and press a shutter button" without thinking more about the technical aspect of it. I'm a chef as a day job and I had the same situations where home cooks and amateurs think they can come in and work as a pro after a some home dinner parties and TV show seasons. They just don't have the basics and foundation and eventually they learn that it's just not for them. I hope that it will be the same with photography when people learn that it's not just about pressing the shutter..

Aspect ratio was a problem even in the film days. 40 years ago when I worked in a pro lab we were amazed at the number of photographers who didn't understand why we needed to print an 8x10 with a white border when they filled the frame side to side with a group picture. My dislike for the 35mm format was heightened by having to explain what I thought was such a simple concept. It's the reason they called 6x7 the Ideal format, it fit more print sizes better than any other.

I'm sure you'll get the common answer that everyone has to start somewhere but I think you and I would agree that "somewhere" might include more than possession of a camera.

breal101 wrote in post #16110660
Aspect ratio was a problem even in the film days. 40 years ago when I worked in a pro lab we were amazed at the number of photographers who didn't understand why we needed to print an 8x10 with a white border when they filled the frame side to side with a group picture. My dislike for the 35mm format was heightened by having to explain what I thought was such a simple concept. It's the reason they called 6x7 the Ideal format, it fit more print sizes better than any other.

I'm sure you'll get the common answer that everyone has to start somewhere but I think you and I would agree that "somewhere" might include more than possession of a camera.

40 years ago the pro didn't shoot 35mm for portraits. Everyone shot medium format and large format. Pros then really didn't frame in the camera especially if they shot Hasselblad with the 6x6 format. You would shoot loose and it would give you the option of vertical or horizontal later. The pro lab I used back then had little card stock masks that you taped the neg to for cropping.

flowrider wrote in post #16110696
40 years ago the pro didn't shoot 35mm for portraits. Everyone shot medium format and large format. Pros then really didn't frame in the camera especially if they shot Hasselblad with the 6x6 format. You would shoot loose and it would give you the option of vertical or horizontal later. The pro lab I used back then had little card stock masks that you taped the neg to for cropping.

I shot with Blads for a couple decades professionally and I did frame in camera. Nothing like square format for portraits. I also shot weddings and only offered square flush mount books I always printed my own B&W medium format work and a lot of my color large and medium format work.

Now I shoot all commercial/advertising work and frame in camera ALWAYS.

When I bought my Blads in the mid 1980s IIRC they were about 2K. When I bought my Canon F-1s (top of the line Canon pro cameras in the late 1970s and early 1980s) they were about $525. The Canon 1dx is what almost 7K?

BigAl007 wrote in post #16110468
Once upon a time on one would consider buying an SLR camera and setting themselves up as a professional photographer. Not that there weren't bad photographers in business but it seemed you needed at least a minimal photographic understanding before you could set up even as a part timers.

These days it seems there is need for ANY knowlege in order to set up as a pro photographer. No barriers at all. It is no wonder to me that in this current age photography has come to have zero value to many.

What brought on this rant you might ask? Well over in the Post processing forum I saw the following question asked. To paraphrase. I have sent a CD of images to a client so that they can get them printed (yeah I know I shouldn't now). Anyway the client is complaining that the heads are being cut off in all the images. Help whats going on?

As the thread progresses it becomes clear that the OP has zero understanding of even the basics of different aspect ratios for different print sizes, or even of the difference between the concepts of cropping and resizing images. Now I know that we all have to learn, even the basics, but surely one should have masterd the basics before one starts to offer "professional" or even commercial services? Did the fact that 30 years ago even a basic 35mm SLR cost close on to the equivalent then of £5000 now than the £500 for a basic xxxD make folk less inclined to make stupid decisions?

Alan

There seems to be a epidemic of "bad photographers" out there !
https://photography-on-the.net …read.php?t=1279​461&page=4

almost every section here (especially the business forum) people complain about how the other person is ruining photography with their bad photos.

I find it kinda funny. especially the knuckleheads with their instagram iphone pics,--- they are the ones ruining photogaphy !

It's one of the perils of technology. I think this will work itself out in the same way that other industries have. For example, when your car breaks down, you can either take it to a reputable repair facility, or you can have the pimply kid next door fix it for a lot less money. You're probably going to get what you pay for, and in the end, the auto repair industry won't fail because of it. In some ways, people doing low-quality work helps to highlight the skill of true professionals.

Matt M. wrote in post #16110715
It's one of the perils of technology. I think this will work itself out in the same way that other industries have. For example, when your car breaks down, you can either take it to a reputable repair facility, or you can have the pimply kid next door fix it for a lot less money. You're probably going to get what you pay for, and in the end, the auto repair industry won't fail because of it. In some ways, people doing low-quality work helps to highlight the skill of true professionals.

The key to the future is to position yourself where the low ballers are not your competition.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16110705
I shot with Blads for a couple decades professionally and I did frame in camera. Nothing like square format for portraits. I also shot weddings and only offered square flush mount books I always printed my own B&W medium format work and a lot of my color large and medium format work.

Now I shoot all commercial/advertising work and frame in camera ALWAYS.

When I bought my Blads in the mid 1980s IIRC they were about 2K. When I bought my Canon F-1s (top of the line Canon pro cameras in the late 1970s and early 1980s) they were about $525. The Canon 1dx is what almost 7K?

Too true. I shot with Mamiya RB/RZ so everything was framed in camera but I never did much square format portraiture. At least retouching is 10000% easier these days.

If I had to know much besides basic exposure and framing when I started, then I'd never have gotten serious about photography. I barely know much more than that now. I just fake the rest.

flowrider wrote in post #16110696
40 years ago the pro didn't shoot 35mm for portraits. Everyone shot medium format and large format. Pros then really didn't frame in the camera especially if they shot Hasselblad with the 6x6 format. You would shoot loose and it would give you the option of vertical or horizontal later. The pro lab I used back then had little card stock masks that you taped the neg to for cropping.

Where did I say anything about portraits. I said group shots extending edge to edge on a 35mm frame. Most photographers shot MF and LF but not all did. We had those masks too but only for automated printers, I did custom prints using enlargers.

I shot Hasselblad but honestly I preferred to print 6x7.

flowrider wrote in post #16110734
Too true. I shot with Mamiya RB/RZ so everything was framed in camera but I never did much square format portraiture. At least retouching is 10000% easier these days.

I shot with both the RB and RZ also. Great cameras. I always preferred the RB and yes there are a lot of negative and print retouchers that are out of business now. I think for single or even two people square is the format. It just fits with the frame format of the camera so naturally.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16110868
I shot with both the RB and RZ also. Great cameras. I always preferred the RB and yes there are a lot of negative and print retouchers that are out of business now. I think for single or even two people square is the format. It just fits with the frame format of the camera so naturally.

The early RB WA lens was a POS, shot wide open the middle of the frame was sharp but the edges were so soft that even mothers of people at the edge of the frame wouldn't recognize them.

To Mamiya's credit they made them much better later on.

The square format was great if you printed them yourself but printing for other people could be a pain unless they gave specific instructions.

I don't think Photographers are alone in that respect and think the whole creative service sector is fueled by amateurs in many areas in varying degrees, i.e the Graphic Design industry is obliterated with people doing logo's for £10 and other people offering budget prices for artwork or similar.

BigAl007 wrote in post #16110468
Once upon a time on one would consider buying an SLR camera and setting themselves up as a professional photographer. Not that there weren't bad photographers in business but it seemed you needed at least a minimal photographic understanding before you could set up even as a part timers.

These days it seems there is need for ANY knowlege in order to set up as a pro photographer. No barriers at all. It is no wonder to me that in this current age photography has come to have zero value to many.

What brought on this rant you might ask? Well over in the Post processing forum I saw the following question asked. To paraphrase. I have sent a CD of images to a client so that they can get them printed (yeah I know I shouldn't now). Anyway the client is complaining that the heads are being cut off in all the images. Help whats going on?

As the thread progresses it becomes clear that the OP has zero understanding of even the basics of different aspect ratios for different print sizes, or even of the difference between the concepts of cropping and resizing images. Now I know that we all have to learn, even the basics, but surely one should have masterd the basics before one starts to offer "professional" or even commercial services? Did the fact that 30 years ago even a basic 35mm SLR cost close on to the equivalent then of £5000 now than the £500 for a basic xxxD make folk less inclined to make stupid decisions?

Alan