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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 18 Jul 2013 (Thursday) 13:04
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how is this deal im offering to a second shooter, fair or ****ty?

 
jcp1976
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Jul 18, 2013 13:04 |  #1

So the second shooter is a photo student im hiring for a wedding that i sold for 2300 in Michigan.

Is $200 reasonable? too much? too little?

What if I told her she has two choices:
1) $200 and the photos she takes are mine
2) $100 and you can use your own photos in your own portfolio as well

How does that sound?


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nathancarter
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Jul 18, 2013 13:07 |  #2

How many hours of work, and is she culling/processing her own images or just handing you the card?


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jcp1976
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Jul 18, 2013 13:23 |  #3

handing me the card. the wedding will be 6-7 hours


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adam8080
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Jul 18, 2013 14:19 |  #4

Depends on the experience and if they have the equipment required. Your area is a little different than mine, but I'm sure it is a reasonable rate for someone who adequate gear and a some photography experience with a wedding or two under their belt.


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Atl-Fotos
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Jul 18, 2013 14:52 |  #5

I think it is a good wage it is at least $25/hr. That is about what I pay my second shooters and I provide the equipment and they hand everything back to me at the end of the shoot.


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ssim
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Jul 18, 2013 15:15 as a reply to  @ Atl-Fotos's post |  #6

I pay 25.00-40.00 per hour depending on experience. I don't see the need to differentiate as to whether they get to use the images or not. I allow any second shooters to take copies of the images they shot for the purpose of their self promotion. They have to sign a letter of agreement stating that they will not market the images to anyone. I provide second shooters with the required camera, lenses and lighting gear. I think generally you are in the ballpark at 200.00 and I wouldn't cheap out on them by taking 100.00 back simply because they want to use a few they shot.


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Jul 18, 2013 22:20 |  #7

It is a hirer's market. I'd take advantage of that fact.

Make sure you have a second shooter/work for hire contract in place though.


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Jul 18, 2013 23:15 |  #8

Atl-Fotos wrote in post #16132234 (external link)
I think it is a good wage it is at least $25/hr.

It isn't $25/hour if she goes for the $100 deal. $100 for 4 hours would be $25/hour. He said the wedding would last 6-7 hours, so the hourly rate would be about $15 under the $100 option and about $30 under the $200 option. This assumes that travel time and other odds and ends don't get paid for.


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drvnbysound
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Jul 19, 2013 01:32 |  #9

How about... make the offer that you are comfortable with, see what her reaction is, and discuss from there?


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huntersdad
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Jul 19, 2013 10:43 |  #10

I'll tell you after this weekend. I shooting second with a buddy who does weddings professionally. Couple hour tonight, and 200-930 tomorrow. It's for his wife's cousin, so he may not even be getting paid and that's OK with me as this will be my first so good experience.


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drvnbysound
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Jul 19, 2013 20:34 |  #11

huntersdad wrote in post #16134668 (external link)
I'll tell you after this weekend. I shooting second with a buddy who does weddings professionally. Couple hour tonight, and 200-930 tomorrow. It's for his wife's cousin, so he may not even be getting paid and that's OK with me as this will be my first so good experience.

Yeah, I was wondering if the 'student' would be as willing...

It could always be pitched as... show me what you can do on this job (maybe minimum payment) and if the work is worthy I will continue to use you and the next job will be at a higher rate. Everyone is different and each individual may be willing to accept various terms depending on the situation.


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cdifoto
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Jul 19, 2013 20:36 |  #12

jeeheon cho wrote in post #16131903 (external link)
So the second shooter is a photo student im hiring for a wedding that i sold for 2300 in Michigan.

Is $200 reasonable? too much? too little?

What if I told her she has two choices:
1) $200 and the photos she takes are mine
2) $100 and you can use your own photos in your own portfolio as well

How does that sound?

Sounds like crap to me unless they're more of an assistant than a photographer. Heck, I make more than that with my hobby business of buffing headlights and that doesn't require nearly as much blood, tears, or equipment.


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cdifoto
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Jul 19, 2013 20:44 |  #13

drvnbysound wrote in post #16136063 (external link)
Yeah, I was wondering if the 'student' would be as willing...

It could always be pitched as... show me what you can do on this job (maybe minimum payment) and if the work is worthy I will continue to use you and the next job will be at a higher rate. Everyone is different and each individual may be willing to accept various terms depending on the situation.

I'd be declining that "offer"...even as a student. Even a lowly warehouse pays you for training.

If OP isn't confident in the second photographer's abilities, he or she should not be hired as one. He or she should be taken under OP's wing as an assistant first and work his/her up to more critical tasks.

How many photographers do free engagement shoots just to prove they're worthy of that couple's wedding?


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drvnbysound
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Jul 19, 2013 22:17 |  #14

cdifoto wrote in post #16136089 (external link)
I'd be declining that "offer"...even as a student.

Hence, the reason I said:

drvnbysound wrote in post #16136063 (external link)
Everyone is different and each individual may be willing to accept various terms depending on the situation.

cdifoto wrote in post #16136089 (external link)
Even a lowly warehouse pays you for training.

If OP isn't confident in the second photographer's abilities, he or she should not be hired as one. He or she should be taken under OP's wing as an assistant first and work his/her up to more critical tasks.

How many photographers do free engagement shoots just to prove they're worthy of that couple's wedding?

I wouldn't consider being a second shooter as 'training' ... and if it's the first gig of said student, I'd call it opportunity.

You are right... if the OP isn't confident in the photographers abilities, I wouldn't suggest using this person either, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't take the same approach with someone else given the same scenario. Personally, I don't want to 'train' someone else to do what I do... I want them to do what they do... to shoot and process their own way, in their own style.

There are plenty of photographers who are entering the market that do free sessions - we aren't talking about a second shooter who has an established portfolio and business.


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cdifoto
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Jul 20, 2013 00:33 |  #15

drvnbysound wrote in post #16136314 (external link)
Hence, the reason I said:

I wouldn't consider being a second shooter as 'training' ... and if it's the first gig of said student, I'd call it opportunity.

You are right... if the OP isn't confident in the photographers abilities, I wouldn't suggest using this person either, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't take the same approach with someone else given the same scenario. Personally, I don't want to 'train' someone else to do what I do... I want them to do what they do... to shoot and process their own way, in their own style.

There are plenty of photographers who are entering the market that do free sessions - we aren't talking about a second shooter who has an established portfolio and business.

So much to address.

First, I didn't say second shooting was training. I even made a point to say it shouldn't be. However, you offered up the notion of having someone shoot for free as an audition. I call that ridiculous. I think that's disrespectful of the other person's time, therefore if you aren't prepared to pay them a fair rate as a second shooter you should be paying them in some other capacity if you want them onboard. It's not an opportunity unless they get to learn OR make some decent money. You specifically said you don't want them to have to be learning, and yet you don't want to pay them either. So yeah it's an opportunity alright - for you to get free services.

And then we're back to why would you bring someone on at all and in turn sell them to a client if you don't think they're worth a fair rate? I think you're doing a disservice to your clients if you sell a two shooter package without knowing the abilities of your second shooter.


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how is this deal im offering to a second shooter, fair or ****ty?
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