Another first wedding question

Ok so I have been on the fence for a while if I ever wanted to even think about weddings. My wife says I should, I know I can do it but currently gear wise I am not up to snuff yet. So today the dreaded text comes from my wife. A "friend" she went to H.S. with has a daughter getting married in a little under a 2 months. Its an all outdoor gig. She asked me wife how much I would charge to photograph the wedding (dont worry its not a what should I charge question, I can figure that out on my own).

So as I am asking questions I jumped online to see what the rental gear would cost. So its more of a gear question. My current kit

T3 (1100d)
15-85
Sigma 35
(2 kit pos that I wont mention)
2 Flashes (its all outdoors not sure I will need, will take anyways)
lots of batteries and cards

So looking to rent a T3i (used one on vacation liked it a lot), and a 70-200 2.8 along with a few spare batteries for the T3i since they are different then my T3. (If I can squeeze a bit more out of them, I might grab 2 T3i's and not use the T3 at all).

Am I missing anything obvious with my proposed kit? I was thinking the 85 1.2 but that depends what I can negotiate for pay.

Ok let me have it

You need to rethink your flash options. Fill flash on a sunny day is essential. People tend to schedule outdoor wedding when the sun is at its worst.

^Agree with gonzo. Even on camera fill is better than nothing.

gonzogolf wrote in post #16143940
You need to rethink your flash options. Fill flash on a sunny day is essential. People tend to schedule outdoor wedding when the sun is at its worst.

Very good point, see I said I would pack it Both of the flashes will work great for fill and I just picked up a crap load of rechargeable batteries for them.

If they are paying you, make sure you have a contract.

Backup gear is always a good idea and it seems like you are thinking along those lines.

Your kit including the rental gear looks ok. 85L on a cropper may be a little long. It depends. Maybe for for a 50mm?

And do a lot of fill flash practice going into this. Doing fill flash in the middle of the day on with an on camera flash is a bit of a challenge and you really dont want to be relearning it on the fly the day of the big event.

nicksan wrote in post #16143964
If they are paying you, make sure you have a contract.

Backup gear is always a good idea and it seems like you are thinking along those lines.

Your kit including the rental gear looks ok. 85L on a cropper may be a little long. It depends. Maybe for for a 50mm?

Yup a contract will be a sure thing.

gonzogolf wrote in post #16143970
And do a lot of fill flash practice going into this. Doing fill flash in the middle of the day on with an on camera flash is a bit of a challenge and you really dont want to be relearning it on the fly the day of the big event.

I have been practicing a bit already, but will be having my wife put on a white dress and doing much more practice if this all pans out


Thank you everyone thus far for the great advice, keep it coming

I think the sigma 35 and the 70-200 will do it. An ultra wide (I'm at 17 on my full-frame) would be nice to really show off the location (I'm imagining trees, grass, sky) -- but it's not essential.

I've shot many many outdoor weddings and have never used fill-flash during the ceremony [edit: oops, I lied. I think I used one during a procession once]. If possible, be involved in the process of deciding on how things will be oriented, and position well for the time. At the very least you'll probably be able to shift who is standing on which side to put the bride in the best light (which may mean backlighting her to prevent raccoon eyes) and make sure they aren't casting shadows on one another.

Consider using on-cam fill for the procession--but test out beforehand and use E-TTL.

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #16144026
I think the sigma 35 and the 70-200 will do it. An ultra wide (I'm at 17 on my full-frame) would be nice to really show off the location (I'm imagining trees, grass, sky) -- but it's not essential.

I've shot many many outdoor weddings and have never used fill-flash during the ceremony [edit: oops, I lied. I think I used one during a procession once]. If possible, be involved in the process of deciding on how things will be oriented, and position well for the time. At the very least you'll probably be able to shift who is standing on which side to put the bride in the best light (which may mean backlighting her to prevent raccoon eyes) and make sure they aren't casting shadows on one another.

Consider using on-cam fill for the procession--but test out beforehand and use E-TTL.

Thank you, the 15-85 gets kind of wide on the crop Might use this chance to try something like the 10-22 Will have to see how large the party is.

I did find out the ceremony is to start at 2pm

Littlejon Dsgn wrote in post #16144069
Thank you, the 15-85 gets kind of wide on the crop Might use this chance to try something like the 10-22 Will have to see how large the party is.

I did find out the ceremony is to start at 2pm

15-85 on a cropper is 24-136 35mm FOV equivalent. Granted it's a 3.5-5.6 variable aperture lens, but for outdoors, that lens should be versatile enough. Not sure you would need an UWA like the 10-22, especially if you can use the funds elsewhere.

Just because the wedding party is on the larger side, it doesn't mean you can't use a more flattering focal length and back up a little bit.

There are certain things you can do to alleviate harsh lighting. However, of course, you have absolutely zero direction as far as which way everyone is facing during the ceremony so it's best to prepare for that. For outdoor ceremonies, I wouldn't hesitate using fill flash if required and of course if allowed. It's not nearly as noticeable or bothersome to guests as when you are indoors. Always find out whether it's OK to use flash though.

For what you have control over, I would have the sun to their backs to avoid squinting or find open shade, and use fill flash for both situations. A good tip to remember is to keep the subjects between you and the sun forming a straight line between the Sun, them, and you. Make use of darker backgrounds relative to the subjects (for example, greenery/trees in the background) and expose for their faces.

Just saying "not sure I'll need my flash" shows you're not ready to photograph a wedding. Flash is most essential when it's sunny. Outdoors at night how are you going to take nice photos, assuming there's nothing to bounce off?

You need to tell them:
- You've never photographed a wedding
- The only guarantee you can make is that the photos won't be of a professional standard

I look at the thread you posted of the girl beside the river - suggest you have a long long way to go. Not sure how you made the images look like that, bad post processing maybe, funky lighting, but really you don't want that for a wedding. In two months you may get to uncle bob ability, if you practice.

Low end customers are the most demanding, and the photographers who get them are the least experienced at business and photography. Do yourself and them a favor and suggest they hire a professional, or at least someone with some experience and a portfolio.

I rented a 70-200mm for my first wedding I shot as a favor with a 400D. I found it to be too long - even outdoors. I've since invested in a 50-150mm which is a lot more useful on my crop bodies.

Flash is an absolute must, as is the need to master exposure, composition and creativity. I've still got a lot to learn myself.

Hmn... and here is me who barely touches the flash when outside.

tim wrote in post #16145490
Just saying "not sure I'll need my flash" shows you're not ready to photograph a wedding. Flash is most essential when it's sunny. Outdoors at night how are you going to take nice photos, assuming there's nothing to bounce off?

You need to tell them:
- You've never photographed a wedding
- The only guarantee you can make is that the photos won't be of a professional standard

I look at the thread you posted of the girl beside the river - suggest you have a long long way to go. Not sure how you made the images look like that, bad post processing maybe, funky lighting, but really you don't want that for a wedding. In two months you may get to uncle bob ability, if you practice.

Low end customers are the most demanding, and the photographers who get them are the least experienced at business and photography. Do yourself and them a favor and suggest they hire a professional, or at least someone with some experience and a portfolio.

Wow thank you for that The very first thing they were made aware of was my lack of experience ...... it may be my first but I am not about to let someone think otherwise.

My mention of maybe not needing the flash was based on having gone to several outdoor weddings in the last couple year, several of which the photographers never needed other lighting (and yes the pictures came out great). I did say I was planning on taking it and that I was also still in the very early stages of getting information out of the couple.

And I will agree the lighting on that model was very much anything but ideal, I did not have my flashes with me that day, and her 2 hour late arrival made for some harsh light not saying I should not have been more prepared, I took that experience and learned from it (so did she )

I could suggest they hire a pro, but that wont do any good, as it is I don't think they will hire me because I asked to much (which in the wedding world what I asked was nothing at all really, just enough to cover my time and the couple rental items). I have a good background in running a business, I have been running two successful ventures for over 10 years now I feel the business end of this wedding is the easy part lol.

I do appreciate every ones helpful comments. Tim, I appreciate you being honest, but I figure as long as everyone is perfectly clear to my abilities and experience and they still decide to hire me .... then I will do my best (currently they have no photographer and I don't think they plan on getting one even if they decide not to go with me).

I'd say flash is a must to have as an option to use. But as I've said above, I've shot many outdoor weddings and didn't use flash during the ceremony, group photos etc. Blue skies behind a well lit subject is one aesthetic possibility of several--not the only option.