Wide gamut monitor and color space HELP

Guys,

I recently purchased a DELL U2413 which has both AdobeRGB and sRGB presets.
I have a JPG photo tagged with AdobeRGB color space, monitor is in AdobeRGB preset and when using CS5 and converting the photo to sRGB I see absolutely no difference in colors however when I change the monitor preset to sRGB (looking at the same sRGB tagged photo), colors (especially reds) go muddy as expected.

What I can't figure out is why wouldn't that color shift be noticable when i'm in AdobeRGB monitor preset and only enacts when I change to an sRGB preset ? Surely converting the photo to a smaller color space (Adobe->sRGB) whilst in AdobeRGB preset should convert colours to a lesser gamut and make it obvious.

Please clarify it for me as I'm not keen on changing presets each time ...

Rod

If all of the colors for the image you are viewing are within sRGB gamut I'd expect to see zero difference in CS5 between the image tagged aRGB or sRGB with the monitor properly calibrated at full gamut or sRGB gamut.

When you swap monitor profiles are you rebooting your system, closing an then re-starting CS5 or are you doing it with CS5 open?

Did you calibrate your monitor to full gamut and sRGB or are you using the out of the box presets? If you are using the Dell defaults then forget what I've said above and go buy yourself a nice monitor calibration tool (x-rite i1 Display Pro or Spyder4Pro). Also change the brightness (manually) to about 15%. It'll look really dim, but it will be much closer than the out of the box setting.

The only reason you ever want to use the sRGB emulation mode is when you use non color managed applications and don't want to see over-saturated images or video. For Windows users this includes Windows Media Player, Windows Media Center, Office applications (not really color managed ... or if they are MS does a horrible job), Adobe Flash Player to view internet movies, and many more. Internet Explorer is also a poorly color managed application, but fortunately there are better browsers like Firefox.

I never use the sRGB emulation mode myself, but I've also done the following:

1. I use the donationware Media Player Classic Home Cinema with color management turned on to replace Windows Media Player or Windows Media Center.

2. My desktop image is tagged aRGB (all of the stock Windows ones are sRGB).

3. I use Firefox for a browser with the "Color Management" add-on which lets me easily turn on full color management without needing to get into the FF hidden settings.

4. I use a good calibration tool (i1Display Pro hardware) and calibrate my monitor monthly.

5. Never use Windows Picture Viewer to view images (or any other MS image viewing application) as the color management is poor.


With the above the only significant issue I have keeping my monitor at full gamut is Adobe Flash. It's everywhere (standard Smugmug, Zenfolio, Flickr, etc. slideshows, internet video, etc.) and it's not color managed. Windows desktop icons are also a bit more saturated and images in Office products (which I never have a need for anyway) look a bit off.

See inline answers ...

Bob_A wrote in post #16148316
If all of the colors for the image you are viewing are within sRGB gamut I'd expect to see zero difference in CS5 between the image tagged aRGB or sRGB with the monitor properly calibrated at full gamut or sRGB gamut.

[RR] All colors are fine except a red t-shirt which looks more vivid in AdobeRGB monitor preset than the sRGB monitor preset.

When you swap monitor profiles are you rebooting your system, closing an then re-starting CS5 or are you doing it with CS5 open?

[RR] I'm not swapping any profiles. I simply Convert To Profile in CS from Adobe to RGB whilst in AdobeRGB monitor preset and the t-shirt's reds show no difference. As soon as I change the monitor preset to RGB the red become duller.
No i don't close out of CS when switching between presets. Should I be ?

Did you calibrate your monitor to full gamut and sRGB or are you using the out of the box presets? If you are using the Dell defaults then forget what I've said above and go buy yourself a nice monitor calibration tool (x-rite i1 Display Pro or Spyder4Pro). Also change the brightness (manually) to about 15%. It'll look really dim, but it will be much closer than the out of the box setting.

The only reason you ever want to use the sRGB emulation mode is when you use non color managed applications and don't want to see over-saturated images or video. For Windows users this includes Windows Media Player, Windows Media Center, Office applications (not really color managed ... or if they are MS does a horrible job), Adobe Flash Player to view internet movies, and many more. Internet Explorer is also a poorly color managed application, but fortunately there are better browsers like Firefox.

I never use the sRGB emulation mode myself, but I've also done the following:

1. I use the donationware Media Player Classic Home Cinema with color management turned on to replace Windows Media Player or Windows Media Center.

2. My desktop image is tagged aRGB (all of the stock Windows ones are sRGB).

3. I use Firefox for a browser with the "Color Management" add-on which lets me easily turn on full color management without needing to get into the FF hidden settings.

4. I use a good calibration tool (i1Display Pro hardware) and calibrate my monitor monthly.

5. Never use Windows Picture Viewer to view images (or any other MS image viewing application) as the color management is poor.


With the above the only significant issue I have keeping my monitor at full gamut is Adobe Flash. It's everywhere (standard Smugmug, Zenfolio, Flickr, etc. slideshows, internet video, etc.) and it's not color managed. Windows desktop icons are also a bit more saturated and images in Office products (which I never have a need for anyway) look a bit off.

Changing the monitor preset is changing the profile used by/for the monitor (what I was referring to by "swapping" the monitor profile) Yes, you should close CS5 then reload it. I had a similar issue which seemed to be caused by the software getting confused when the monitor profile is changed.

Also, how are you calibrating your monitor?

Bob_A wrote in post #16148541
Changing the monitor preset is changing the profile used by the monitor (what I was referring to by "swapping" the monitor profile) Yes, you should close CS5 then reload it. I had a similar issue which seemed to be caused by the software getting confused when the monitor profile is changed.

[RR] I'll try that. Hopefully it's as simple as that

Also, how are you calibrating your monitor?

I just got it last week so relying on factory calibration of AdobeRGB.

RodRolirad wrote in post #16148554
I just got it last week so relying on factory calibration of AdobeRGB.

OK. Well you may find that the factory presets don't give the same results even when viewing an image that is within sRGB gamut. The two profiles (presets) could have significantly different luminance, contrast ratios, etc.

Try reloading CS5 when you change the preset to see if the behavior goes away. If it doesn't it's either a calibration issue or perhaps the red is significantly out of gamut using sRGB. Personally, as I mentioned in my first response, I'd focus on getting your full gamut calibration correct and don't use the sRGB preset.

Until you calibrate your monitor it is impossible to make any useful comparisons.

RodRolirad wrote in post #16147640
I have a JPG photo tagged with AdobeRGB color space, monitor is in AdobeRGB preset and when using CS5 and converting the photo to sRGB I see absolutely no difference in colors

You shouldn't see much difference: Only colors outside sRGB should clip. Extreme reds for instance.

RodRolirad wrote in post #16147640
however when I change the monitor preset to sRGB (looking at the same sRGB tagged photo), colors (especially reds) go muddy as expected.

I'd guess that the OS doesn't tell PS you changed the monitor profile…


Calibrate the monitor.

I've finally figured it out.
The image I was using had colours mostly covered by the sRGB color space and viewing it under AdobeRGB monitor preset and converting the image to sRGB space under the same preset revealed next to no shift.
I then looked and found an image which had very vivid colours and doing the same showed a significant shift in the vivid blues.
The world makes sense again !

This thread got me to thinking...I have to wonder about the value of a wide gamut monitor in this scenario...
1) shoot RAW,
2) view in wide color space,
3) output JPG for printing by commercial printer.

Now for the discussion...
Let's assign with wider pallette of aRGB to colors 4097-4300 for conceptual discussion purposes. (Let us not forget that we lose 103 colors from the 1-4096 sRGB space to permit the same 8-bit representation to hold 4096 distinct hues in both sRGB and aRGB). Due to the use of a wide gamut monitor we can see colors 4097-4300 in aRGB. But when we output JPG to send to a commercial printer, we lose the ability to print colors 4097-4300.

The only scenario that would benefit from having the display of 4097-4300 would be if we print at home on a printer capable of aRGB support.

Wilt wrote in post #16158878
This thread got me to thinking...I have to wonder about the value of a wide gamut monitor in this scenario...
1) shoot RAW,
2) view in wide color space,
3) output JPG for printing by commercial printer.

Now for the discussion...
Let's assign with wider pallette of aRGB to colors 4097-4300 for conceptual discussion purposes. (Let us not forget that we lose 103 colors from the 1-4096 sRGB space to permit the same 8-bit representation to hold 4096 distinct hues in both sRGB and aRGB). Due to the use of a wide gamut monitor we can see colors 4097-4300 in aRGB. But when we output JPG to send to a commercial printer, we lose the ability to print colors 4097-4300.

The only scenario that would benefit from having the display of 4097-4300 would be if we print at home on a printer capable of aRGB support.

I've found that using the gamut warning in Ps and pulling down the colors only in the areas that are clipping, I get better results than just converting to sRGB and letting Ps deal with any out of gamut colors.
What I don't get is, why change the monitor profile back and forth?