Sound recording technique for a presentation?

I'm new to video recording (with a 5D3), but I'm planning on recording a presentation (nothing complex - just someone presenting technical material in front of a projection screen). I'd like to be able to ensure good recorded sound quality both for the presenter, and audience members asking questions (for people watching the recording at a later date). The room is ~4mx10m (13x33ft).

We have a wireless mic system, which feeds into an amp, with a couple of ceiling speakers. It occurs to me that, whilst it would be a pain due to the cable lengths, I could just hook the camera's mic input to that (wireless mic) source. As long as we ensure audience members get a mic for asking questions, there should be good quality sound.

However, I do wonder if the sound might be a little sterile, as there will be no ambience (e.g. general audience reactions will be unheard).

I could set up a mic in the audience, but fairly close to a ceiling speaker (so the presenter's voice from the loudspeaker dominates, but we pick up some ambient), but I'm unsure if that's a wise thing to try.

I see the Rode VideoMics are well regarded, and I presume that the Videomic Pro would be good if I were just pointing it at the presenter. I guess the Videomic Pro Stereo would be good for ambient sound, but probably not so hot for clear speech?

Going more complex (recording the presenter and ambient separately and mixing later) is probably beyond me at the moment.

Any suggestions from those with experience in this area?

PS Vectoring off on a slightly related question: would a directional mic (e.g. the Videomic Pro) be more suited to recording videos of the kids vs. the Videomic Pro Stereo? I.e. just "home movie" type shots of the kids playing.

This job is best done with two cameras. One a wide angle view of the room with a mic for general sound. Two a camera for close ups with the mic fee from the presenter and audience mic. DSLRs are generally poor choices to record meeting because of their short recording time and lack of auto focus.

sspellman wrote in post #16175455
This job is best done with two cameras. One a wide angle view of the room with a mic for general sound. Two a camera for close ups with the mic fee from the presenter and audience mic. DSLRs are generally poor choices to record meeting because of their short recording time and lack of auto focus.

It would probably be best done with tens of thousand of dollars of kit, but I don't have that either .

For the intended purpose of this shoot, I don't mind if audience questions are off camera (though they do need to be audible).

The AF issue should be OK, as the presenter shouldn't be moving too much, and I'm not after any shallow DOF shots. The short recording time is admittedly more of a problem, but we're specifically wanting short presentations, so I believe the <30 minute recording time will be fine.

I had seen the Zoom H4n highly recommended, and it occurs to me that it might be possible to use its built-in mics for the audience, and connect a mic to one of its external inputs for the presenter. It's probably straying a bit further (complicated) than I wanted, but I guess that could be used to get good speech + ambient sound.

You are overly concerned with ambient sound. It will leak into the mics anyways. The best way to capture question audio it to have a host with a wireless mic bring it to them or have the presenter repeat the question. The Zoom H4N is an option and I like mine, but it will be difficult to put it near the audience and run mic cables from the presenter and wireless.

sploo wrote in post #16175260
I'd like to be able to ensure good recorded sound quality both for the presenter, and audience members asking questions (for people watching the recording at a later date). The room is ~4mx10m (13x33ft).

For the presenter you would be well advised to tap into the audio system either on a spare output or by splitting the output from the wireless receiver and if possible by doing the same for the questions.

Nailing an output from the board or PA amp will be your simplest method as that will give you audio from both the presenter and the Q&A, if that is not possible you will need two splitters to grab the two outputs of the receiver(s).

The room is relatively small so don’t fret too much about ambiance you will get plenty of that with the two microphones as it is.

Now is there any chance you can do a pre-event survey and determine what you will be connecting to, that information would make it a lot easier to determine just how to proceed and what will be needed to pull this off…

Wayne.

sspellman wrote in post #16176080
You are overly concerned with ambient sound. It will leak into the mics anyways. The best way to capture question audio it to have a host with a wireless mic bring it to them or have the presenter repeat the question. The Zoom H4N is an option and I like mine, but it will be difficult to put it near the audience and run mic cables from the presenter and wireless.

Channel One wrote in post #16177409
For the presenter you would be well advised to tap into the audio system either on a spare output or by splitting the output from the wireless receiver and if possible by doing the same for the questions.

Nailing an output from the board or PA amp will be your simplest method as that will give you audio from both the presenter and the Q&A, if that is not possible you will need two splitters to grab the two outputs of the receiver(s).

The room is relatively small so don’t fret too much about ambiance you will get plenty of that with the two microphones as it is.

Now is there any chance you can do a pre-event survey and determine what you will be connecting to, that information would make it a lot easier to determine just how to proceed and what will be needed to pull this off…

Wayne.

Scott/Wayne - thanks for the feedback.

The venue is my workplace, so fortunately I'd be able to experiment - but as I don't own a H4n or Rode mic it would require some outlay to try those.

We do have multiple wireless mics, so I think it would be practical to give the presenter one, and hand out another to people asking questions. The only thing is that I've found those mics (probably intentionally) have a very short range for picking up sound (i.e. there's zero chance they'll pick up ambient).

I could just invest in some long cabling and a splitter, and hook the camera up to the output from the wireless mic receiver. However, as I'm also thinking that one of the Rode mics might be good for filming the kids, I could get one of those first and do a test in the room (using just the Rode mic on the camera).

If that appeared to pick up too much ambient (and/or wasn't good enough for a presenter's voice) then I could get a H4n (which would be hooked up to the wireless mic output). Logistically, that would be relatively easy as it could sit by the receiver.

I could then use the H4n audio as the main source for the presenter and questions, and mix in ambient from the Rode mic on the camera if I felt the need. That is a bit more complex than I was first considering though.

I presume that for trying to pick up a presenter (with maybe a little ambient), and for "home movie" shots of the kids playing, that the mono VideoMic Pro would be a better choice than the VideoMic Pro Stereo? (I'm not planning on shooting music events)

Also, is there any decent audio/video editing software (for a PC) that doesn't cost $$$$? (that would handle the output from a 5D3, and allow a bit of basic editing and audio mixing)

sploo wrote in post #16177470
We do have multiple wireless mics, so I think it would be practical to give the presenter one, and hand out another to people asking questions. The only thing is that I've found those mics (probably intentionally) have a very short range for picking up sound (i.e. there's zero chance they'll pick up ambient).

Try setting one up with a pair of headphones on and see just how much background it picks up, I'm guessing it will be plenty for your use.

That’s inexpensive and foolproof and is my preferred method of grabbing audio.

The Rode will give you plenty of background but is not suited for that application.

And being two channel one could be used for the presenters receiver and the other for the Q&A receiver.

No matter what you choose stick with mono.

I can strongly recommend Sony Vegas, you can download a free fully functional demo from their webpage.

Wayne

Thanks for the info.

I got chance to test out the wireless mic with the camera (hooking the output of the wireless receiver to the camera's mic input). The resulting sound quality was pretty good, but as I suspected, the (audio) range on the mic is nothing - it'll pick up a speaker with the mic close to the lip, but no ambient. That does result in a somewhat 'dead' feeling, but ultimately I guess I'm trying to record clear speech not win an Oscar, so I guess it's good.

It turns out our mic system only has one receiver channel (so whilst the kit comes with two mics, only one can be used at once). We'll just have to have the presenter repeat questions, or hand the mic out.

I think I can therefore do without the Rode VideoMic Pro, but I am still tempted to get one for videos of the kids. Out of interest - why do you suggest sticking with mono?

Will look up Sony Vegas. TBH I'd probably pay $200 for a video editing tool (though do wonder if there are any decent free ones for Windows). The price of the various "pro" editing tools (Vegas, Premier) is a bit steep for an occasional video shooter. Surely there must be cheaper options for someone that wants to do relatively simply trim/cut/paste/fade operations? Perhaps I should look at trial versions of things like Premier Elements to see if it'll be sufficient.

sploo wrote in post #16189350
The price of the various "pro" editing tools (Vegas, Premier) is a bit steep for an occasional video shooter.

Use one of the consumer versions of Vegas they can be had for less than $100 and the only limitation compared to the "pro" version is the number of timelines that can be worked with at the same time.

Channel One wrote in post #16196459
Use one of the consumer versions of Vegas they can be had for less than $100 and the only limitation compared to the "pro" version is the number of timelines that can be worked with at the same time.

Interesting. Thanks.

I looked at a couple of tutorial videos for Premier Elements, and whilst it looks pretty good, I recall seeing a number of tutorials on good shooting with the 5D3 noting that you should turn sharpening down in camera, then use the unsharp filter (in Premier Pro). By the looks of it, Elements has a sharpening filter, but perhaps not the same set of tools as Pro. If a consumer version of Vegas was more fully featured it might be better in this regard.

I'd generally only want to do basic edits (in terms of numbers of clips and 'tracks') but would like something that would allow decent grading. As a RAW shooting stills guy, that kinda appeals to me.

sploo wrote in post #16196482
If a consumer version of Vegas was more fully featured it might be better in this regard.

Have you downloaded Vegas and seen what filters are there, it's something like 60 or so and IMO way more than enough for any editing situation.

Wayne

Channel One wrote in post #16196501
Have you downloaded Vegas and seen what filters are there, it's something like 60 or so and IMO way more than enough for any editing situation.

Wayne

Wayne - many thanks for the heads-up on Vegas. I finally got time to download and install it last night. From a (very) brief play with a file from the 5D3 it looks good.

Indeed it does have a good set of filters, including an unsharp mask with multiple settings. I don't know if the behaviour would be the same as Premier Pro (such that people's recommended settings from Premier would be suitable), but I'll check more when I get chance.

The only downside with the filters is that I've not worked out yet how to get a full sized preview whilst making changes (pretty critical for tweaking stuff like sharpening).

I've not done any real editing yet, but my needs in that regard are pretty simple.

I can't see any warning of timeouts with the demo, other than the fact it nags you to buy when you close it. It may be a while before I get time to test it again, so hopefully it won't expire. The cost is very reasonable, so I'll be happy to pay once I'm happy it's good for me.

BTW I've ordered the Rode Videomic Pro, as I suspect it'll get other use - but I might try to work out (for the presentations) if I can record the wireless mic on one channel on the camera, and the Rode on the other. That way I can mix the two channels together later if I want a bit of ambient (and it might save us if presenters occasionally forget to bring the wireless mic close to the lip - just a couple of inches and it picks up nothing).

Thanks all for the input - it's been very helpful!