Suitable soft boxes for a small studio?

I'm wanting to set up a (temporary) studio in a small(ish) room, and wondering what size soft boxes would be appropriate.

I've done a course with a local pro who has a larger space, and used 4 fairly large rectangular softboxes (maybe this http://www.wexphotogra​phic.com …softbox-with-bag/p1004558) with mains powered lights (might have been Elinchrom - I don't remember the brand). This was set up with each light on the corner of a square - two behind the subject, two in front - with the subject in the middle of the square.

My room is about 2.7m (~9ft) wide and nearly 7m (~23ft) deep, but the area where I could put stands for lights would be about 2.2m (~7ft) wide and 2.4m (~8ft) deep - but I could step back and shoot from further down the room (e.g. another 1.3m back from the 2.4m depth). E.g. (* for a light, x for the subject):

<----- 2.7m ----->

+---------------+
|               |
|  * <-2.2m-> *  |
|             ^  |
|             |  |
|        x   2.4m|
|             |  |
|             v  |
|  *          *  |
|             ^  |
|            1.3m|
|             v  |
|     Camera     |
|               |
.               .
.               .

I just made a quick test, 2 yongnuos 560II inside a 90x90cm softbox.

At 1.5m I got f4.5 at 1/4 power and f6.3 at 1/2 power (ISO100).

The softbox has silver material inside that you shoot into and just the regular thin outer diffusion panel.

Get the absolute largest soft box you can:

(1) afford
(2) power with your current flash power, but give your self some headroom if you want to get a more powerful flash source - unless of course, you are fairly certain you are going to keep your current flash setup.

I LOVE my chimera 3x4 footer and I hope to add a 4.5 x6 footer for my second flash head.

.

Nonnit wrote in post #16196626
I just made a quick test, 2 yongnuos 560II inside a 90x90cm softbox.

At 1.5m I got f4.5 at 1/4 power and f6.3 at 1/2 power (ISO100).

The softbox has silver material inside that you shoot into and just the regular thin outer diffusion panel.

Many thanks - that's exactly the sort of feedback I was looking for regarding power levels. I have a Nissin Di866 MkII, but was thinking of a set of the Yongnuo 560 flashes as they seem ideal for that sort of application (and cheap).

If I understand correctly, 2 flashes will be 1 stop more power than a single flash? So with the above settings, 1 flash would be f4.5 at 1/2 power and f6.3 at full power?

pyrojim wrote in post #16196659
Get the absolute largest soft box you can:

(1) afford
(2) power with your current flash power, but give your self some headroom if you want to get a more powerful flash source - unless of course, you are fairly certain you are going to keep your current flash setup.

Interesting. Can you explain the thinking there? I'd assume you'd want a large enough softbox to give soft light (for your subject), but not so large that it spills everywhere and isn't that controlled? I.e. for a hair/rim light I'd assume you'd want to control the light pretty carefully for good results?

Adding the second flash doubles the light (gives 1 stop) and is less strain on the flash.

If you go closer for single person portrait, at 50-70 cm 2X yongnuos 560II at 1/4 power give f8-f9 (ISO100).

At 1/4 power the 560II can keep up with my 5D2 in burst mode. (not that I shoot like this but flash recycling is not an issue)

If you want less spill and more control get grid for the softbox if you haven't already.

After having tried out a gridded softbox I i wouldn't get one without the grid. (velcro grid that you can take off)

Should be good for small studio.

sploo wrote in post #16196801
Interesting. Can you explain the thinking there? I'd assume you'd want a large enough softbox to give soft light (for your subject), but not so large that it spills everywhere and isn't that controlled? I.e. for a hair/rim light I'd assume you'd want to control the light pretty carefully for good results?

To be honest, I had to google rim and hair light. So how do I control the light? I back up or bring the light closer, or I turn up or down the light power. Its all in feathering the light so it can wrap around a subject(or not).

As my entire setup is fairly new to me(actually its all OLD gear), I try and keep the light setup very simple. Heck, a Profoto pro8 pack only has 2 sockets... So far, all my setups have been... one strobe into the 3x4 that I have.

You could probably run some 3x4's in your studio. You could also build some diffusion panels with what you can find! A few of my friends and acquaintances all agree that you generally want BIG light sources (think several 7 foot octas). How much flash power are you working with?

This is a (very) rough edit of something that I was working on last weekend. Lit with(you guessed it) one strobe and the largest soft box I have.

IMAGE LINK: http://www.jameshorine​.com …018546&k=RmxnLD​m&lb=1&s=A

Nonnit wrote in post #16196946
Adding the second flash doubles the light (gives 1 stop) and is less strain on the flash.

I'm hoping that with one flash for key and another for fill (at the front) I wouldn't need to push both to the limit, and your tests are confirming that what I'm thinking of doing is (probably) feasible.

Nonnit wrote in post #16196983
If you want less spill and more control get grid for the softbox if you haven't already.

After having tried out a gridded softbox I i wouldn't get one without the grid. (velcro grid that you can take off)

Should be good for small studio.

Yea, the grids look interesting. Expensive to buy though!

I'm thinking of having a go at making some DIY softboxes, and it strikes me that some of those lattices of cardboard used for packing glass drinks bottles might make a good "poor man's" grid.

Equally, I can of course make whatever size softbox I want, but obviously want to get a rough idea of what's reasonable for my space.

pyrojim wrote in post #16197190
To be honest, I had to google rim and hair light. So how do I control the light? I back up or bring the light closer, or I turn up or down the light power. Its all in feathering the light so it can wrap around a subject(or not).

As my entire setup is fairly new to me(actually its all OLD gear), I try and keep the light setup very simple. Heck, a Profoto pro8 pack only has 2 sockets... So far, all my setups have been... one strobe into the 3x4 that I have.

You could probably run some 3x4's in your studio. You could also build some diffusion panels with what you can find! A few of my friends and acquaintances all agree that you generally want BIG light sources (think several 7 foot octas). How much flash power are you working with?

Moving back may be difficult due to the space! I'd hope to be using 4 speedlights, so given Nonnit's feedback, I think that might be possible with up to a 90x90cm area, but a 7 footer may be a stretch!

I was thinking of something in the region of 130x50cm, which by my dodgy calculations is about 80% of a 90x90cm.

Size is relative...A 22" softbox 22" away from the subject will cast light which is equally soft as putting a 48" softbox 48" away from the subject!!!

So the choice of size is partially due to the size of the object being photographed within the light field cast by the softbox.

The difference between putting a 22" box at 22" vs. a 44" box at 44" is in the relative amount of light intensity falloff due to distance... The box at 22" will have -1EV of falloff by 31" (9" back), but the box at 44" will have only a bit more than -0.5EV of falloff by 53" (9" back)

Wilt wrote in post #16199353
Size is relative...A 22" softbox 22" away from the subject will cast light which is equally soft as putting a 48" softbox 48" away from the subject!!!

So the choice of size is partially due to the size of the object being photographed within the light field cast by the softbox.

Wilt - thanks. I'd heard the same described in a different way (close = soft, further away = hard). What you're saying makes sense.

What I've been wrapped up on is the belief that the size of the softbox would control the falloff shape/size, but having found the two videos below, I see the point that it's more about the softness of the light:

http://theslantedlens.​com …es-101-a-lighting-lesson/
http://theslantedlens.​com …pplied-a-lighting-lesson/

Wilt wrote in post #16199353
The difference between putting a 22" box at 22" vs. a 44" box at 44" is in the relative amount of light intensity falloff due to distance... The box at 22" will have -1EV of falloff by 31" (9" back), but the box at 44" will have only a bit more than -0.5EV of falloff by 53" (9" back)

Think I understand, but just confirming - you can put the larger box further away from the subject, but over an extra 9" distance (box size + 9"), the larger box will fall off less. I presume both would have a similar softness of light (as the small box is closer).

Now... why does the smaller box fall off more. Is that based on the assumption that both boxes would be filled with light evenly, so the larger box outputs more light overall. Or is it due to the inverse square law?

Nonnit's feedback indicates speedlights in a 90x90cm box is realistic in power terms. That's 35"x35", so a reasonable size. Considering my room, I guess a softbox-to-subject distance of up to 1.5m (60") is possible, so it sounds as though anything in the 22" to 35" square or 24x50" rectangular is feasible for both the room and speedlight power.

So... in terms of being a cheapskate and wanting to go DIY... is it better to do the traditional route and have the speedlight hanging out the back of the box & firing in (easy to change settings), or have the back closed (and reflective) and have a speedlight inside, and firing into the back of the softbox to minimise hot spots. Guess that might have to just be some experimentation.

sploo wrote in post #16204605
Now... why does the smaller box fall off more. Is that based on the assumption that both boxes would be filled with light evenly, so the larger box outputs more light overall. Or is it due to the inverse square law?

The Inverse Square Law!

• 2' increased to 4' (+2') loses -2EV.
  
• 4' increased to 8' also loses -2EV.
  
• But 4' increased by 2' loses a bit less than 1.25EV.

sploo wrote in post #16204605
Nonnit's feedback indicates speedlights in a 90x90cm box is realistic in power terms. That's 35"x35", so a reasonable size. Considering my room, I guess a softbox-to-subject distance of up to 1.5m (60") is possible, so it sounds as though anything in the 22" to 35" square or 24x50" rectangular is feasible for both the room and speedlight power.

Do not forget that a front facing speedlight needs to FILL the front panel of the softbox... at 24mm WA coverage (on FF) a speedlight needs to be about 50" back from the front panel to fill 50"!

Here is an example of a flash zoom head NOT being able to fill a softbox when pointing forward...

Better to fire back to the rear reflector, when the speedlight cannot be mounted far enough from the front panel to fill it, when the flash is aimed at the front panel.

Whatever you do, buy one which comes with nice grids. First thing over the size IMHO for smaller space.

Wilt wrote in post #16204981
The Inverse Square Law!

• 2' increased to 4' (+2') loses -2EV.
  
• 4' increased to 8' also loses -2EV.
  
• But 4' increased by 2' loses a bit less than 1.25EV.

Ah. Of course. And 4' increased by 1.6' (4' x 1.4 = 5.6' = 4' + 1.6') would lose about 1 stop. Got it.

On that subject, I found this (http://www.zarias.com …rt-3-from-white-to-black/) last night, which I thought was a great tutorial on how to use light fall off to get what you want from a background.

Wilt wrote in post #16204981
Do not forget that a front facing speedlight needs to FILL the front panel of the softbox... at 24mm WA coverage (on FF) a speedlight needs to be about 50" back from the front panel to fill 50"!

Here is an example of a flash zoom head NOT being able to fill a softbox when pointing forward...

Better to fire back to the rear reflector, when the speedlight cannot be mounted far enough from the front panel to fill it, when the flash is aimed at the front panel.

Great example, and saves me more experimentation. Thanks! Internal firing it is then.

Though it occurs to me it might be possible to do a rear external firing with some sort of a reflector on the inside (a bit like a beauty dish). Having the flash inside would obviously result in an obstruction in the center, so perhaps a reflector would be no worse - and would obviously allow access to the flash controls (and perhaps better cooling). Guess I will have to try some experiments after all .

bobbyz wrote in post #16206080
Whatever you do, buy one which comes with nice grids. First thing over the size IMHO for smaller space.

Me == Cheapskate => DIY . I've had my eye on some of the cardboard lattices that often sit between glass bottles for shipping. No idea where I'd get them though.

What sort of square size and depth is common for a grid? (e.g 2" squares with 1/2" deep material?)

Honestly spend money on nice grids. Photoflex is nice quality and not too expensive. Also don't worry about firing flash backwards. Most flash will let you do 14mm with that wide angle panel. 4x6 in small studio, good luck and I don't see anything in the posted shot where 4x6 is doing what it supposed to do.

Look at small studio thread. Lot of nice info. Look for a guy named Mat something (name is escaping me). He got banned but came back. One of the best examples of shooting people in small places. Don't worry too much about tech talks. 90% here are probably engineers like me.