Lighting for indoor martial arts

I have an opportunity to shoot the above, specifically Aikido.

The room they train in appears to be well lit and has light coloured walls (from photos I’ve found on their website).

I know I will need to shoot at a high shutter speed and wondered how to add light from flash. My first thought was to place a couple of OCF’s on the floor either side of the camera, forward a little and pointing up, with the built in reflector up.

A second idea was to bounce both OCF’s off the wall behind me.

A third idea is that this might be an opportunity for me to invest in a couple of light stands and umbrella or soft boxes.

Regards to flashes on stands, what would be a better option for me: Umbrellas or soft boxes (a pair of either would be in budget, but not additional lighting). Shoot though white or reflective silver?

I have a couple of Yougnuo 568's with 622 triggers.

What would be more universal to the hobbyist like me ? (I've not done any portraiture, but that's not to say I might not in the future).

I’m sure that once I have this little project under my belt, there will be other opportunities that arise (this one came from word-of-mouth).

Lawrence

definitely grab some stands and brackets.

are you just photographing their regular routine? or doing some posed/semi-posed shots?

Prodominantly particular throws, hence the need for higher shutter speed and therefore light.

Although while I'm there...

So, a good excuse to get some stands and brackets for my flashes, but what (if anything) do I flash into/through?

Lawrence

Don't place your lights behind you. That's just going to give you flat light. Place them about 180 degrees apart from each other so as to side light the subjects. If the walls are white or grey, bounce your light. If they are colored, then go with direct light. It will be a bit harsher but will still yield good results. You can also use umbrellas to soften the light a bit.

If you want to really insure sharp photos, over power the ambient light. That way the speed of the flashes will freeze the subjects.

Make sure that they know you plan to use flashes. Let them get used to them before trying anything advanced. Flashes can be very distracting, which could be dangerous for the Aikidoka.

Also, try a few with a slower shutter speed, allow some motion blur -- Aikido is a very fluid art and movement in the photo highlights that aspect.

You'll post some here, right?

Thanks guys.

I was thinking of setting the flashes 90° apart, or there about (will try different locations), the idea being to throw a little shadow and create some contrast. Each flash might also eliminate the others' shadow. Perhaps getting the flashes up to the same level as the camera will also help (on stands).


In a way, I have been challenged - A friend of a friend is an instructor at the club and for some time they have wanted a composite image of a member being thrown. No one yet has managed to pull it off - I'm game to try.

I'll have to have the flashes on low power so they can recycle quicker to keep up with the 7D

They will know I'll be using flashes (we'll, they will when I tell them) and we'll attempt this after (or between) training sessions (would not want to interrupt a paid-for training session).

Once we get what they want, I'll want to play with other effects - slow shutter and 2nd curtain flash for example.

And of course, I'll post something on my return (just waiting for the friend of a fiend to contact me).

Oh, so a shoot through umbrella might be the answer to my earlier question ?

Lawrence

You want to use flash duration to freeze motion, not shutter speed.

The very simple shoot through umbrella kit I got for some product/fine art shoots a few years back was as follows;

2 Stands: http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …ushioned_Light_​Stand.html

2 Brackets: http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …117_umbrella_br​acket.html

2 Umbrellas 33": http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …slucent_umbrell​a_33_.html
or 43": http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …slucent_umbrell​a_43_.html

And this case to carry it all in: http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …1119_light_kit_​bag_3.html

this takes up a bit of space though when set up, so make sure this is cool and you have the room for it.

If umbrellas seem to big, but you do want to get the stands, I'd get the brollies anyway, for $10.00 a pop, no reason not to add it to your kit.

Do you have a way to trigger two off camera flashes?

And yes, 90 degrees or so apart is more common that 180 degrees which would mean facing each other

Trugga wrote in post #16224878
In a way, I have been challenged - A friend of a friend is an instructor at the club and for some time they have wanted a composite image of a member being thrown. No one yet has managed to pull it off - I'm game to try.

hearing this makes me think a darkened background with high contrast lighting would make a great image.

it's one thing if they just wanted shots to explain what they do, but it seems they are going for one great image. You might try hitting them from the back to create a rim light and then one just to the side of the camera, probably even in an umbrella, as the main.

don't forget to focus the beam on the flashes if needed.

try with your flashes, but personally I'd either get strobes (Alienbee or Einstein) or go to HomeDepot and get some halogen shop lights. They're cheap, bright, and always on, so there's no recycle, no flash to blind them (eyes are adjusted to the bright lights) etc. They do get quite hot, keep that in mind. With throws etc I'd guess you want to do very fast shutter speed and keep the shutter going for the whole throw, reaching limits of what a flash or strobe can do regarding recycle time.
You can bounce those lamps just as a flash as well and should be able to get very high shutter speeds.

Kind of shoot a stop motion movie. At least I see what you try to do more as a movie shot (continuous light) than a one or two shots and repeat thing?

Just an idea.

Some great information appearing - thank you. It appears my initial ideas were on the right track - I just needed POTN's experiences to fine tune them.

If I can end up with something like this: Googled image from the internet, except of one person throwing another, I'd be happy.

I'm currently considering this stand/bracket/umbrella set: Interfit (who are based, incidentally, a twenty minute drive from where I live), but it'll be a couple of weeks or so before the session, so I've got time to shop around. There's a 2009 POTN review here: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=750315

At this time, I don't really want to be investing in lights, although I do like the "work light" idea - I have a small 150w one and I do know some motorsport buddies that have the larger twin sets on stands - hmm.

I have a couple of Yongnou 568 flashes and some 622's as triggers - I actually have a spare 622, so I might be able to borrow a 3rd flash for some rim light - interesting.

Cheers
Lawrence

Trugga wrote in post #16225465
If I can end up with something like this: Googled image from the internet, except of one person throwing another, I'd be happy.

do you think you could get the image in your link with one person?

Trugga wrote in post #16224878
Thanks guys.

I was thinking of setting the flashes 90° apart, or there about (will try different locations), the idea being to throw a little shadow and create some contrast. Each flash might also eliminate the others' shadow. Perhaps getting the flashes up to the same level as the camera will also help (on stands).

Oh, so a shoot through umbrella might be the answer to my earlier question ?

Lawrence

No, the flash will not eliminate the other flashes shadow. If anything, it will create a second shadow. You should also have the lights a bit higher than the subjects if possible. If you want to eliminate most shadows, think about setting your lights so that they illuminate your subjects similar to this photo:

IMAGE LINK: http://s182.photobucke​t.com …-407_zps368a219c.jpg.ht​ml

Work lights are unlikely to produce enough light to allow shutter speeds high enough to freeze motion. Unmodified it would be very ugly light if you could get enough.

Your googled image looks like it might be one light off to the right,. almost 90* to the camera, but maybe more like 75*.. and a second unit set to lower power on the left hand side..

If you have low ambient lighting, and then crank your flash up to be the main light, you could get this. If your flash does not recycle fast enough to do it in one "take" with a fast burst,.. you could do the same throw several times with the same pair of people, mark on the floor where they start each time... then composite the images in software.