Does anyone require a face to face meeting to discuss pricing and such?

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #16366602
It is a business decision NOT TO REQUIRE mandatory meetings before a client books.

Not to mention you can hammer out your texts from virtually anywhere at any time. You can squeeze those little micromeetings into smaller crevices of time. You can have micromeetings with a bunch of clients and leads at once.

That's what I consider text/email consultations. Micromeetings. I don't even like phone calls, to be honest, because they can tie me down.

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #16366602
From a business perspective...

10 sample portrait clients. Buying a package value $500. No mandatory meeting before being booked. 5 hours work per client. Forgetting COGS for a moment.

50 hours total work @ $100 per hour.

10 sample portrait clients. Buying a package value $500. With a mandatory 1 hour meeting before being booked. 6 hours work per client. Forgetting COGS for a moment.

60 hours total work @ $83.33 per hour.

I've just earned less per hour and worked more hours. I could have done another two portrait jobs in the time I spent requiring meetings and earned an extra $1000 in the process.

It is a business decision NOT TO REQUIRE mandatory meetings before a client books.

You are right but if I recall correctly you sell digitals only? I'm sorry if I'm mistaken. There are many factors to consider in talking about time spent and cost. The reason why (one of them) I started this is b/c I read a lot of complaints where people said "I gave the prices ahead of time and at the sales appointment they wasted 2 hours going back and forth and still didnt make a decision and want to come back".

Your estimate is very generic and I dont know what you included in the 5 hours/ client. It did not include an appointment after did it? Part of this is to hopefully cut that down ahead of time by giving them time to think and arm them with more info to better plan, etc. Ultimately you could save yourself time by being direct and up front and giving your client the best knowledge.

Now if you are doing digitals and dont really have much "to meet about" after then I certainly agree. But then again perhaps its best to scratch this and just do digitals and not worry about any of it. In that case there really would be no need for a meeting before or after.

abbypanda wrote in post #16366621
Your estimate is very generic and I dont know what you included in the 5 hours/ client.

It was just an example to show you how the math works.

abbypanda wrote in post #16366621
It did not include an appointment after did it? Part of this is to hopefully cut that down ahead of time by giving them time to think and arm them with more info to better plan, etc. Ultimately you could save yourself time by being direct and up front and giving your client the best knowledge.

You want to talk about saving time by being direct and up front and giving the client the best knowledge? That's exactly what email/text/phone consultations do! You know what wastes time? Face to face meetings!

abbypanda wrote in post #16366621
You are right but if I recall correctly you sell digitals only?

95% of my wedding bookings are with an album. Around 30% of those who book haven't seen a physical album at the time of booking.

The bottom line in all this I believe is as follows

1) YOUR written communication can lead to confusion as it is unclear and you don't always say what you mean

and

2) YOU have so many options/variations it is causing confusion for your potential clients.

Both of these factors are playing a big part in the reason why you feel you have to have meetings all the time.

cdifoto wrote in post #16366635
It was just an example to show you how the math works.

I understand how math works, but thank you.

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #16366644
95% of my wedding bookings are with an album. Around 30% of those who book haven't seen a physical album at the time of booking.

The bottom line in all this I believe is as follows

1) YOUR written communication can lead to confusion as it is unclear and you don't always say what you mean

and

2) YOU have so many options/variations it is causing confusion for your potential clients.

Both of these factors are playing a big part in the reason why you feel you have to have meetings all the time.

Sounds about right.

I make it dead simple and adaptable. One big package. One bigger package. No cheapies or low end/no profit options. Can't decide between those two? Basic shooting fee then buy stuff individually later. The packages will be a much better deal though.

The important part is the photo shoot. Once we have the pictures we can do whatever with them.

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #16366602
From a business perspective...

10 sample portrait clients. Buying a package value $500. No mandatory meeting before being booked. 5 hours work per client. Forgetting COGS for a moment.

50 hours total work @ $100 per hour.

10 sample portrait clients. Buying a package value $500. With a mandatory 1 hour meeting before being booked. 6 hours work per client. Forgetting COGS for a moment.

60 hours total work @ $83.33 per hour.

I've just earned less per hour and worked more hours. I could have done another two portrait jobs in the time I spent requiring meetings and earned an extra $1000 in the process.

It is a business decision NOT TO REQUIRE mandatory meetings before a client books.

cdifoto wrote in post #16366635
It was just an example to show you how the math works.

You want to talk about saving time by being direct and up front and giving the client the best knowledge? That's exactly what email/text/phone consultations do! You know what wastes time? Face to face meetings!

I know I said I stepped out of this thread, but I have to comment on the highlighted statements.

Those statements are proof that you are poor business people. You're saying that meeting with your clients are a waste of time. You're saying you could have been making more doing something else. You guys don't realize the value of your customers. You truly don't. Everytime you're in front of a client (booked or potential) it's an OPPORTUNITY to expand and grow your business, and increase revenue!You should easily be able to turn that $500 web/text booking into a $750 or $1000 booking. If you guys really believe it is a waste of your time to meet with your paying clients, it will show, and it will cost you in the long run. Your arrogance will show through, and you better hope and pray that your talent can support such arrogance. In most cases, it can't.

How do you think your past clients would react to you if they knew that you felt that way? The certainly wouldn't refer any business your way, and they probably wouldn't use you again. Even if they didn't plan on having a meeting with you. Nobody wants to feel like they are an inconvenience to someone.

I was truly flabbergasted when I read those comments, and I honestly see two out of work photographers down the road. Not because of their talent, but because of their attitude to those that put food on their tables.

I'm done. Flame away....

KirkS518 wrote in post #16366674
I know I said I stepped out of this thread, but I have to comment on the highlighted statements.

Those statements are proof that you are poor business people. You're saying that meeting with your clients are a waste of time. You're saying you could have been making more doing something else. You guys don't realize the value of your customers. You truly don't. Everytime you're in front of a client (booked or potential) it's an OPPORTUNITY to expand and grow your business, and increase revenue!You should easily be able to turn that $500 web/text booking into a $750 or $1000 booking. If you guys really believe it is a waste of your time to meet with your paying clients, it will show, and it will cost you in the long run. Your arrogance will show through, and you better hope and pray that your talent can support such arrogance. In most cases, it can't.

How do you think your past clients would react to you if they knew that you felt that way? The certainly wouldn't refer any business your way, and they probably wouldn't use you again. Even if they didn't plan on having a meeting with you. Nobody wants to feel like they are an inconvenience to someone.

I was truly flabbergasted when I read those comments, and I honestly see two out of work photographers down the road. Not because of their talent, but because of their attitude to those that put food on their tables.

I'm done. Flame away....

Reading comprehension?

Meeting for pricing is a waste of time. Especially if you're good enough at communicating other ways. My clients would actually find me rather annoying if I insisted on meeting for that. Remember how I said most of them are business owners as well (and I don't mean commercial photography, I mean they come to me to shoot their daughter's seniors, wedding, etc but happen to own a business)? They know all about maximizing efficiency and not wasting time. There is a big difference between SPENDING time and WASTING time. I have NO problems SPENDING time with clients but I will not WASTE it. Especially when it would be wasting THEIR time as well.

I appreciate my clients. I appreciate them so much I respect their time in addition to my own. I respect their time so much I'll send messages straight to their phone - that they can check when it conveniences them - instead of insisting on an unnecessary meeting. I also appreciate them so much that if they text me at 3AM and I'm awake, I'll respond. I appreciate them so much that I will meet if they ask to meet. I make things crazy easy for them, and part of making things crazy easy is not insisting on insane meetings.

So don't even start with the accusations that we don't appreciate our customers.

KirkS518 wrote in post #16366674
I know I said I stepped out of this thread, but I have to comment on the highlighted statements.

Those statements are proof that you are poor business people. You're saying that meeting with your clients are a waste of time. You're saying you could have been making more doing something else. You guys don't realize the value of your customers. You truly don't. Everytime you're in front of a client (booked or potential) it's an OPPORTUNITY to expand and grow your business, and increase revenue!You should easily be able to turn that $500 web/text booking into a $750 or $1000 booking. If you guys really believe it is a waste of your time to meet with your paying clients, it will show, and it will cost you in the long run. Your arrogance will show through, and you better hope and pray that your talent can support such arrogance. In most cases, it can't.

How do you think your past clients would react to you if they knew that you felt that way? The certainly wouldn't refer any business your way, and they probably wouldn't use you again. Even if they didn't plan on having a meeting with you. Nobody wants to feel like they are an inconvenience to someone.

I was truly flabbergasted when I read those comments, and I honestly see two out of work photographers down the road. Not because of their talent, but because of their attitude to those that put food on their tables.

I'm done. Flame away....

Firstly we are referring to meeting when meetings are not required. NOT not meeting with potential clients full stop. If someone just wants to know prices though I'll send them the website link.

Secondly I'm booked solid for the next 12 months ahead for the second year running. Over 50% of my bookings now come from referrals.

Thirdly read the reviews on my website if you want to see what my past clients think about me.

Finally the whole thread is not about "paying clients" it is about potential clients. People who aren't a client yet. You are completely missing the point that we don't meet where it isn't necessary to do so. That is a simple business decision.

It is however an inconvenience to me to drive an hour across the city for a one hour meeting and then drive home again just to discuss my prices. Going to a meeting isn't going to change my prices in any way. They are there clear as day on the website for people. If a potential client is really interested in my work and really wants to know the prices they'll look at the website and find them out from there after being directed to it.

Ummm... ok...

abbypanda wrote in post #16366604
Honestly I am, b/c I have found people have too many questions. Just as this forum post has turned into a back and forth emails do as well.

"pricing starts at $1 and people usually spend $5-10"

"well what do you get for $5"
"what do you get for $10"
"well what if I dont want this"
"what if I want that intead"
"what is the difference in this over that"

That is exactly why it is better and faster to me to cut to the chase and spend a few minutes talking to someone directly.

You could call them for that. But those are dead simple questions I routinely answer over text. The two packages on the website answer the first two questions pretty well though. Sure, they're pre-configured and thus might seem un-custom, but they were created using my professional experience and logic based on what most people were buying before the packages came about. And that's EXACTLY what I tell the potential client. It's my experience and expertise that created those packages. I can even talk about my thought process in creating them if they want: divorce. A lot of parents are divorced. This causes squabbles over prints. My packages are made to eliminate all fighting over who gets what...they can be split RIGHT down the middle and the cost divided exactly equally between father and mother. Both sets of grandparents get covered, both parents get covered, and the senior's friends get covered. Everyone is happy. And that's just my base package.

When the packages make sense, and you have experience to back it up and explain it, you have what they want ready to go.

My answer to "what if I want that instead?" Easy. Check out the PDF. Anything of equal value at my a la carte catalog prices can be exchanged as a like-for-like swap. At ANY point. I don't care what that contract says. If you decide later on that you don't want 32 wallets and you'd rather have an 8x10 and a 5x7...no problem. I will scratch off 32 wallets and order an 8x10 and a 5x7. As long as the order wasn't already placed with the lab before the change request, we're good. Easy peasy.

See how easy it was for me to explain to you how I operate? I didn't need to call you into my office. If you need clarification, ask!

So how does that conversation go?

Potential Client: I went to your website, and was interested in your pricing for my wedding?

Photographer: Great. When would you like to make appointment to come in and discuss our pricing and other things.

Potential Client: Can't you just give me a base price for some of your packages? If there are in my price range, I'd like to come into discuss your services.

Photographer: I'm sorry we don't give out any prices without a face to face meeting.

Potential Client: Why? I just want to know a general ball park of how much your services cost.

Photographer: Sorry ... Just our policy. We can't give out any prices without a one on one meeting with the photographer or staff.

Potential Client: Ok. Thanks. I'll get back to you.