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Thread started 29 Aug 2013 (Thursday) 02:54
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DxO assess the Canon 70D's sensor performance

 
burnet44
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Aug 31, 2013 10:41 |  #136

agree
Im researching also
people know a lot more than me
Im sure dxo isnt an end all
but no website tests are
use it as info to make decisions
I like dp review a lot
but they havent posted their conclusions yet
Im also looking for real world shooters examples that meet my needs
havent seen many sports stuff yet
im sure as time goes by there will be some


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_igi
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Aug 31, 2013 11:27 |  #137

I don't understand that DR hype. It was the deal with few older cameras, but now it rocks. Olny situations after over three months of use was when i've accidently overexpose my shots at +3ev, and there vere burned-out parts in the clouds, and when i've shot into the sun and exposed to dark shadows.

In documentary it might hurt, but then you have speedlites with you, in portrait you don't care as mimics and skin tones are most important, in landscape and architecture - you don't care as you're shooting on tripod and blend exposures anyway.

Just use the light, if not - buy more equipment, like filters, tripod or software :-)


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David ­ Arbogast
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Aug 31, 2013 12:47 |  #138

I don't understand the "we don't need better" anti-improved-DR hype.


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Hogloff
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Aug 31, 2013 12:50 |  #139
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_igi wrote in post #16256257 (external link)
I don't understand that DR hype. It was the deal with few older cameras, but now it rocks. Olny situations after over three months of use was when i've accidently overexpose my shots at +3ev, and there vere burned-out parts in the clouds, and when i've shot into the sun and exposed to dark shadows.

In documentary it might hurt, but then you have speedlites with you, in portrait you don't care as mimics and skin tones are most important, in landscape and architecture - you don't care as you're shooting on tripod and blend exposures anyway.

Just use the light, if not - buy more equipment, like filters, tripod or software :-)

I guess the same question could be asked about high ISO...why do we need it, we could just use a flash when it gets dark. Having options is what it is all about. There are times when you cannot blend a couple of images because your taking the photo without a tripod.




  
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Hogloff
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Aug 31, 2013 12:52 |  #140
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David Arbogast wrote in post #16256420 (external link)
I don't understand the "we don't need better" anti-improved-DR hype.

More correct would be "I don't need better". In that case, then they should be happy with their gear and not even be interested in what others need.




  
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Amamba
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Aug 31, 2013 12:56 |  #141

After switching to Sony, I find it much easier to salvage photos taken in high contrast situation, vs my T3i. I can expose to preserve highlights, then pull the shadows an still get clean photos. With T3i, the shadows were always an issue in harsh light. There's no denying Canon's DR is nowhere near what Exmore can produce.

But there's more to camera than just sensor. I briefly tried D5200 and I hated nearly everything about it, despite the great sensor performance. If I ever go back to a DSLR, it would be Sony or Canon (not going to spend the money on D800). Canon strong points are sharpness (where D5200 fell short), ruggedness, good customer service, pleasing colors, plenty of relatively cheap good lenses, great controls. Sony has sensor performance, focus peaking (good feature not only for manual lenses), EVF (which I really came to like as it gives WYSIWYG picture), and in their large cameras also IBIS.

Canon is a leading camera company. They make their own sensor (unlike Nikon) and while this is very beneficial from a business perspective, this also means they can't quickly adapt their manufacturing processes. It's not that they can't design a sensor with better DR or high ISO performance, likely it can't be produced on their current tooling and it is too expensive to retool.


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burnet44
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Aug 31, 2013 13:47 |  #142

Hogloff wrote in post #16256433 (external link)
I guess the same question could be asked about high ISO...why do we need it, we could just use a flash when it gets dark. Having options is what it is all about. There are times when you cannot blend a couple of images because your taking the photo without a tripod.

I cant use a flash many times shooting sports
most of the time its not allowed
especially indoors


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Aug 31, 2013 16:40 |  #143

_igi wrote in post #16256257 (external link)
In documentary it might hurt, but then you have speedlites with you, in portrait you don't care as mimics and skin tones are most important, in landscape and architecture - you don't care as you're shooting on tripod and blend exposures anyway.

Nikon's cameras are so good with dynamic range that you don't need to blend exposures. Canon's cameras need you do to a lot more work to get around the lack of DR. That is the point.


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Aug 31, 2013 17:07 |  #144

Just remember, the Sony sensor is only going to have the DR advantage between 100-800 ISO, after that it's a even match.

The advantage for Sony is 2 stops or less between those ISO's. As a mod pointed out to me, there's a lot of hyperbole, and we need to keep things in perspective (when it comes to the actual 'truth').

This hasn't affected me with the 5d2 (yet), but there are situation when the ISO is cranked, there could be banding in the shadows. I would think that would be a better point to argue, for Sony people, than 2 stops of DR.


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brettjrob
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Aug 31, 2013 17:10 |  #145

davidc502 wrote in post #16256903 (external link)
Just remember, the Sony sensor is only going to have the DR advantage between 100-800 ISO, after that it's a even match.

The advantage for Sony is 2 stops or less between those ISO's. As a mod pointed out to me, there's a lot of hyperbole, and we need to keep things in perspective (when it comes to the actual 'truth').

This hasn't affected me with the 5d2 (yet), but there are situation when the ISO is cranked, there could be banding. I would think that would be a better point to argue then 2 stops of DR.

Two stops is rather huge. In a fairly large percentage of high dynamic range scenes, it will make the difference between bracketing vs. a single exposure.

The mentality that two stops of DR is relatively unimportant compared against marginal, iffy differences at high ISO sure doesn't resonate with me. But, as I already noted earlier in the thread, I accept that's the prevalent view on this board (and, I presume, among Canon users in general). So, I'm doing something about it by switching to Nikon.


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davidc502
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Aug 31, 2013 17:26 |  #146

brettjrob wrote in post #16256910 (external link)
Two stops is rather huge. In a fairly large percentage of high dynamic range scenes, it will make the difference between bracketing vs. a single exposure.

The mentality that two stops of DR is relatively unimportant compared against marginal, iffy differences at high ISO sure doesn't resonate with me. But, as I already noted earlier in the thread, I accept that's the prevalent view on this board (and, I presume, among Canon users in general). So, I'm doing something about it by switching to Nikon.

Is it that huge? It's not like Canon's out there tripping over themselves trying to match or better Sony in the DR range. If they were loosing huge market share, we would have heard or seen something, from them, a year or longer ago.

Don't get me wrong, unless Canon is sitting on thier laurels, they adventually will produce a sensor with as good, if not better DR as Sony. It's just that I'm not convinced Canon is too worried about it, and as a consumer who's bought Canon goods since 1991, if they aren't worried, then I'm not either.

Also, when we say "huge" I think of the differences between the first 1mega pixel digital cameras and today's Canon 1DX, because that's huge. If Canon was that far behind in the DR race, then there's a big problem and Canon's got thier heads in the sand.


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Hogloff
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Aug 31, 2013 17:42 |  #147
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davidc502 wrote in post #16256926 (external link)
Is it that huge? It's not like Canon's out there tripping over themselves trying to match or better Sony in the DR range. If they were loosing huge market share, we would have heard or seen something, from them, a year or longer ago.

Don't get me wrong, unless Canon is sitting on thier laurels, they adventually will produce a sensor with as good, if not better DR as Sony. It's just that I'm not convinced Canon is too worried about it, and as a consumer who's bought Canon goods since 1991, if they aren't worried, then I'm not either.

Also, when we say "huge" I think of the differences between the first 1mega pixel digital cameras and today's Canon 1DX, because that's huge. If Canon was that far behind in the DR race, then there's a big problem and Canon's got thier heads in the sand.

I really don't care if Canon is worried about it or not. I make my own decisions based on what is important for me...not what is important for Canon or the Canon masses.

Right now I shoot with a 5d2 and struggle with high dynamic range scenes using combinations of GND filters and blending techniques, all of which are a pain in the ass. If the next professional full frame camera released by Canon does not improve on their dynamic range, I am gone.




  
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David ­ Arbogast
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Aug 31, 2013 20:56 |  #148

DR is not an overblown issue. :)


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brettjrob
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Aug 31, 2013 20:57 |  #149

Bakewell wrote in post #16257078 (external link)
I think the entire DR issue is completely overblown and relevant only in extreme circumstances...

PS. dedicated to Hogloff

Feel free to plug your ears and cover your eyes and ignore numerous posters who have stated otherwise, as pertains to their own photography needs.

If we're going to play this game, I'll shoot: I don't give a rat's posterior about sports, action or wildlife photography. Personally, I could get by just fine with a single center AF point. Non-cross type. Ergo, any and all complaints about AF on any body are hereby completely overblown.

Even if "My Brand" has a single center AF point while competitors have had the 1DX AF system for the past half-decade.


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davidc502
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Aug 31, 2013 21:01 |  #150

David Arbogast wrote in post #16257293 (external link)
DR is not an overblown issue. :)

You're right, and I'm glad it's been exposed. ;)


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DxO assess the Canon 70D's sensor performance
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