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Thread started 29 Aug 2013 (Thursday) 02:54
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DxO assess the Canon 70D's sensor performance

 
KenjiS
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Aug 29, 2013 15:00 |  #46

lsquare wrote in post #16249496 (external link)
http://www.dxomark.com …el-CMOS-AF-sensor-perform (external link)

Summary: Canon barely made much improvement to its APS-C sensor except for the small increase in megapixels. The Nikon D7100 and Sony A77 outperforms the Canon 70D.

Considering how big Canon is, I can't believe the gap between Canon's sensors and its competitors are growing. How is this possible? The Canon 70D's successor will not be released until 2015/2016, which means that its APS-C sensors will have essentially stagnated for 5-6 years.

I guess the answer is pretty obvious here. If someone doesn't need the features of the 70D (i.e. Dual Pixel AF), then there's no point to upgrade from the 60D since the 70D barely outperforms the 60D's sensor.

or DxOMark is full of ****

I go more with the DxOMark is for couch measurebation, Not photography...

And thats because i put more faith in actual -samples- from the cameras... Like D800 vs 5DIII I see the difference and that... I havnt seen actual images comparing the output of the 70D and D7100 yet


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Hogloff
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Aug 29, 2013 15:03 |  #47
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jdizzle wrote in post #16250916 (external link)
You have every right as a consumer to gripe if you pay your hard earned money for a sensor that doesn't perform all around. Why don't people understand that? :confused:

I think it has something to do with people's infuriority complex when maybe...just maybe their gear that they so much cherish might have some problems. Somehow people get attached to their gear and cannot separate themselves and have an honest conversation regarding gear without feeling they are being insulted when someone says something not so flattering about said gear.




  
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burnet44
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Aug 29, 2013 15:04 |  #48

I dont have that problem
my gears problem is me


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Hogloff
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Aug 29, 2013 15:08 |  #49
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KenjiS wrote in post #16251004 (external link)
or DxOMark is full of ****

I go more with the DxOMark is for couch measurebation, Not photography...

And thats because i put more faith in actual -samples- from the cameras... Like D800 vs 5DIII I see the difference and that... I havnt seen actual images comparing the output of the 70D and D7100 yet

There is room for both types of tests. The nice thing about the DXO test is that it is consistent and repeatable for all cameras. Same test under controlled conditions. You might not agree with their scores, but if you look deeper into the actual tests and results, you'll see there is a lot of valid data.

The problem with comparing images on the net is that you have no idea how the images were manipulated, what the camera settings were, what type of post processing occured, what lenses were used...basically out of control environments.

Now, the best way to compare two cameras is to shoot both of them yourself...that is what I did with my 5D2 and D800 and I know which of those produces the better images.:)




  
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Loknor
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Aug 29, 2013 15:11 |  #50

Bakewell wrote in post #16250757 (external link)
Really? Read your last 50 posts. Positive? Where? Just stop being soooooo negative!

He's not negative, he's flat out stating cold hard facts. You might not like it, but it's the truth. And yes, there are many reasons to be happy with Canon gear, but that does not change the reality of a sensor tech that's more than a few years behind the curve.

I simply do not understand why people go all defensive when facts are laid out. What's so scary about the truth?




  
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KenjiS
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Aug 29, 2013 15:13 |  #51

Hogloff wrote in post #16251010 (external link)
I think it has something to do with people's infuriority complex when maybe...just maybe their gear that they so much cherish might have some problems. Somehow people get attached to their gear and cannot separate themselves and have an honest conversation regarding gear without feeling they are being insulted when someone says something not so flattering about said gear.

Because they invested money in it, and in our culture and society admitting you might have spent your money on an inferior product makes you appear naive or foolish..

That said, To make sure people dont misunderstand, I'm not saying DxOMark isnt right, I am saying that its hard, at least for me, to understand the "difference" so to speak without seeing actual images and examples, And putting all your faith in their "numbers" is perhaps unwise as well... 20 points or whatever on a thing is ust a number to me, Show me examples, Show me samples, Show me what those 20 points actually -mean- beyond, well, 20 points


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burnet44
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Aug 29, 2013 15:18 |  #52

Im kinda here

I think the top end cameras have reached a stabilized point of development. It used to be that every dollar you spent bought you an extra dollar of value. Now, it seems like the high end cameras may be better, but I'm having a hard time being convinced the 5D3 is worth 3 times what the 70D is in terms of photo quality. I really liked the 6D, if Canon hadn't deliberately crippled it to keep it from competing with the 5D3.

any thoughts?


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gjl711
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Aug 29, 2013 15:18 |  #53

KenjiS wrote in post #16251038 (external link)
Because they invested money in it, and in our culture and society admitting you might have spent your money on an inferior product makes you appear naive or foolish..

One thing to keep in mind, for the most part, we are talking about nits here. The difference between all these cameras is small. The problem that DxO has is that very few have ever taken the time to read the description of their metrics and don't understand them. So, if I don't understand it it must be stupid because clearly I am not stupid.


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KenjiS
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Aug 29, 2013 15:18 |  #54

Hogloff wrote in post #16251021 (external link)
There is room for both types of tests. The nice thing about the DXO test is that it is consistent and repeatable for all cameras. Same test under controlled conditions. You might not agree with their scores, but if you look deeper into the actual tests and results, you'll see there is a lot of valid data.

The problem with comparing images on the net is that you have no idea how the images were manipulated, what the camera settings were, what type of post processing occured, what lenses were used...basically out of control environments.

Now, the best way to compare two cameras is to shoot both of them yourself...that is what I did with my 5D2 and D800 and I know which of those produces the better images.:)

I know there is, its just really hard for me to understand, in practical usage, the difference between a 60 and a 70 on their graph... I know for instance I HAVE handled a few cameras and looked at trading out my 7D for say, a D7000 before (Which has a supposedly better sensor) and i didnt find the files that much better than what my 7D does... I wasnt impressed enough with what I saw to warrant a switch...

Oh and yeah, the D800 is better than the 5D2/5D3 by miles to me..

Granted, Most of my old "Why I wont switch to Nikon" arguments are gone at this point, They have an 80-400 and a 70-200 f/4 VR now, The only one that now exists is simply that I do not feel like it, I dont feel like selling my gear off and buying a new camera right now...

Besides I still hold out maybe a little hope the 7D II will be better ;)


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Aug 29, 2013 15:20 |  #55

Hogloff wrote in post #16250353 (external link)
Not that easy if you have a bunch of Canon glass. I think you already know this but just want to be a jerk...right.

Lol


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spear
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Aug 29, 2013 15:32 |  #56

KenjiS wrote in post #16251053 (external link)
I know there is, its just really hard for me to understand, in practical usage, the difference between a 60 and a 70 on their graph... I know for instance I HAVE handled a few cameras and looked at trading out my 7D for say, a D7000 before (Which has a supposedly better sensor) and i didnt find the files that much better than what my 7D does... I wasnt impressed enough with what I saw to warrant a switch...

Oh and yeah, the D800 is better than the 5D2/5D3 by miles to me..

Granted, Most of my old "Why I wont switch to Nikon" arguments are gone at this point, They have an 80-400 and a 70-200 f/4 VR now, The only one that now exists is simply that I do not feel like it, I dont feel like selling my gear off and buying a new camera right now...

Besides I still hold out maybe a little hope the 7D II will be better ;)


Where do you get that the D800 is better than the 5D3 by miles? I have the 5DIII and my brother has a D800, and we have done tons and I mean tons of testing trying to figure out which is the better camera. It is close, but we have both since agreed that although the D800 has excellent DR, the 5D3 is a better overall camera with better images. Even if you would choose the D800, it certainly is not "by miles" ... maybe you meant the 5D2 ... surely you know that the 5DIII is a totally different and dramatically more capable camera.


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David ­ Arbogast
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Aug 29, 2013 15:42 |  #57

Hogloff wrote in post #16251010 (external link)
I think it has something to do with people's infuriority complex when maybe...just maybe their gear that they so much cherish might have some problems. Somehow people get attached to their gear and cannot separate themselves and have an honest conversation regarding gear without feeling they are being insulted when someone says something not so flattering about said gear.

I'm guessing you meant "inferiority complex", but with "infuriority complex" you've just coined a perfect term for infuriated forum members ( not speaking of this thread or forum in particular ).

So this week I've learned about pop-stars that "twerk" and angry forum people with "infuriority complexes". :lol:


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Hogloff
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Aug 29, 2013 15:43 |  #58
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spear wrote in post #16251090 (external link)
Where do you get that the D800 is better than the 5D3 by miles? I have the 5DIII and my brother has a D800, and we have done tons and I mean tons of testing trying to figure out which is the better camera. It is close, but we have both since agreed that although the D800 has excellent DR, the 5D3 is a better overall camera with better images. Even if you would choose the D800, it certainly is not "by miles" ... maybe you meant the 5D2 ... surely you know that the 5DIII is a totally different and dramatically more capable camera.

I thought we were just talking about image quality here. I found the image quality from the D800 was much better than what I got our of the 5D2. Now, this is a base ISO's which is where I shoot. Also, at base ISO, the image quality from the 5D3 and 5D2 are basically identical...did that test as well.




  
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Aug 29, 2013 15:44 |  #59

spear wrote in post #16251090 (external link)
Where do you get that the D800 is better than the 5D3 by miles? I have the 5DIII and my brother has a D800, and we have done tons and I mean tons of testing trying to figure out which is the better camera. It is close, but we have both since agreed that although the D800 has excellent DR, the 5D3 is a better overall camera with better images. Even if you would choose the D800, it certainly is not "by miles" ... maybe you meant the 5D2 ... surely you know that the 5DIII is a totally different and dramatically more capable camera.

+1 I have tried them out as well and my choice is the 5D III, DR is where it is only better.


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Aug 29, 2013 15:45 |  #60

So, in summary: a new Canon sensor with virtually no improvement in DR and low ISO performance, even after several years of stagnation (T2i, T3i, T4i, T5i all pretty much the same) and at least a couple years being significantly behind the competition. Just another sign, IMHO, that they simply don't care much about the landscape niche and are content marketing primarily to other segments.

Preparations for switching to a D600 are underway for this Canon loyalist since the 300D. It wouldn't surprise me at all if landscapers on this side of the fence who hold out another 2-3 years for the 6D/5D3 successors are ultimately greeted with a similar fate. Based on the responses in this thread, and many similar ones here recently, the lion's share of Canon users simply don't care much about DR, regardless of how far behind the pack they fall and for how long.


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DxO assess the Canon 70D's sensor performance
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