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Thread started 29 Aug 2013 (Thursday) 02:54
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DxO assess the Canon 70D's sensor performance

 
lsquare
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Aug 30, 2013 03:05 |  #91

KenjiS wrote in post #16251004 (external link)
or DxOMark is full of ****

I go more with the DxOMark is for couch measurebation, Not photography...

And thats because i put more faith in actual -samples- from the cameras... Like D800 vs 5DIII I see the difference and that... I havnt seen actual images comparing the output of the 70D and D7100 yet

No one is saying the 70D is a bad camera. I have no reason to doubt DxO's sensor analysis. What makes you think they're full of ****? Even if you can't see the difference doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Unless I see conclusive evidence that says DxO's numbers can't be trusted, then I have no reason to question their findings.




  
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lsquare
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Aug 30, 2013 03:06 |  #92

Loknor wrote in post #16251028 (external link)
He's not negative, he's flat out stating cold hard facts. You might not like it, but it's the truth. And yes, there are many reasons to be happy with Canon gear, but that does not change the reality of a sensor tech that's more than a few years behind the curve.

I simply do not understand why people go all defensive when facts are laid out. What's so scary about the truth?

Exactly! The facts are indisputable and it's not like we're looking to start an argument for the sake of having an argument.




  
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lsquare
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Aug 30, 2013 03:09 |  #93

KenjiS wrote in post #16251053 (external link)
I know there is, its just really hard for me to understand, in practical usage, the difference between a 60 and a 70 on their graph... I know for instance I HAVE handled a few cameras and looked at trading out my 7D for say, a D7000 before (Which has a supposedly better sensor) and i didnt find the files that much better than what my 7D does... I wasnt impressed enough with what I saw to warrant a switch...

Oh and yeah, the D800 is better than the 5D2/5D3 by miles to me..

Granted, Most of my old "Why I wont switch to Nikon" arguments are gone at this point, They have an 80-400 and a 70-200 f/4 VR now, The only one that now exists is simply that I do not feel like it, I dont feel like selling my gear off and buying a new camera right now...

Besides I still hold out maybe a little hope the 7D II will be better ;)

The switch to Nikon is easier now as I don't need f/2.8. That's why I love Canon because they have a pretty decent lineup of high quality f/4 lens. I do wish that Nikon would make a 24-70mm f/4 lens because it'll be smaller and lighter than their 24-120mm f/4 lens.




  
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lsquare
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Aug 30, 2013 03:19 |  #94

amfoto1 wrote in post #16252280 (external link)
Patience. Wait until the time of day when the contrast is more favorable, or come back on an overcast day. That's how we handled it with slide film, much of which had about the same dynamic range as a 5DII or III.

Or, multiple exposure. One for the waterfall and trees, the other for the sky. Then marry the two images together in post production. It would only be a problem if there were wind moving the trees. Then a bit more patience might be needed, awaiting the breeze to stop.

But I agree with another point, too... often the sky is an overly distracting element in deep woods/waterfall type shots. Might be better to recompose avoiding the sky in the shot, if possible

If we have 8 stops of dynamic range right now, and a future sensor from Canon improves that to 10 stops, it's a sure bet we'll be out finding 12 and 14 stop scenes where the DR of the camera can't handle it, and coming back here to gripe about it!

Go shoot a roll of Velvia sometime.... 50 ISO, 7 or 8 stops of DR. It's gorgeous stuff, but a PITA! It sure will make you appreciate what you've got in your 5DIII.

That was then and this is now. Just because something was done like that in the past doesn't mean that it should continue into the future. I do hope technology continues to improve so that I don't have to be as patient as you are.




  
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sega62
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Aug 30, 2013 06:26 |  #95

JoYork wrote in post #16250387 (external link)
When Canon were winning the megapixel race, Nikon claimed a high MP count wasn't important because they had better noise handling. Then Nikon brought out a gigantic MP sensor and then Canon began to stress how much more important low noise was.

It's similar to the way Intel and AMD traded blows during the noughties on whether or not megaherts matter.

Nikon have a great camera and lens lineup, as do Canon. I don't worry too much about which company's gear is technically better than the other as most of the time the biggest factor in how good my photos turn out is yours truly :rolleyes:

you nailed it\
my friend bought the SL1, and does amazing pics!
So the 70D will do as good!
And all the gizmos that comes with it, focus points, touchscreen, wifi....




  
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Aug 30, 2013 06:33 |  #96

dnauer wrote in post #16252321 (external link)
I rarely get involved in these arguments, but guys -- the topic here is the 70D. The competition from Nikon is the D7100. *IF YOU MUST CONTINUE THIS DIALOGUE OFF TOPIC OF THE THREAD* then let's see what the 70D *can do* and where it falls short, and compare it to the D7100, not a D600 or D800 - -those interested in the 70D aren't likely to be looking in those price levels.

And PLEASE remember that DR is only *A PART* of the equation here -- there are other factors to consider in those DxO results -- DR isn't the only factor in a sensor. SO -- PLEASE stop comparing both Canon's higher line (5DIII, 6D) and Nikon's higher line (D600, D800) cameras in a 70D thread -- there are other threads for you guys to go.

Instead please bring your expertise and experience down to these lower layers where both the D7100 and the 70D are "below" this high level camera line discussion. Thanks -- and looking forward to some civilized and meaningful insight -- what can we expect the 70D to be limited by (the actual DR limits here), and harder for those that are so in love with the Nikon line -- what GOOD THINGS can the we expect also from the 70D in this part of the camera's feature set???. Please?

There is valid reason to bring FF sensors into this discussion bcoz' Nikon has the advantage in DR. Whether we like it or not it's fact. I can attest the validity bcoz' I've used all the current FF cameras from both camps. If I were to post my findings/images on this forum the whiney knit pickers would cry. :p I guess people don't like to hear the truth. ;) Now, with the 70D vs. D7100 it should be common knowlege for most that the Nikon would perform better from a DR stand point. High ISO doesn't matter with both camps since they're a tie.




  
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sega62
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Aug 30, 2013 06:37 |  #97

dnauer wrote in post #16252321 (external link)
I rarely get involved in these arguments, but guys -- the topic here is the 70D. The competition from Nikon is the D7100. *IF YOU MUST CONTINUE THIS DIALOGUE OFF TOPIC OF THE THREAD* then let's see what the 70D *can do* and where it falls short, and compare it to the D7100, not a D600 or D800 - -those interested in the 70D aren't likely to be looking in those price levels.

And PLEASE remember that DR is only *A PART* of the equation here -- there are other factors to consider in those DxO results -- DR isn't the only factor in a sensor. SO -- PLEASE stop comparing both Canon's higher line (5DIII, 6D) and Nikon's higher line (D600, D800) cameras in a 70D thread -- there are other threads for you guys to go.

Instead please bring your expertise and experience down to these lower layers where both the D7100 and the 70D are "below" this high level camera line discussion. Thanks -- and looking forward to some civilized and meaningful insight -- what can we expect the 70D to be limited by (the actual DR limits here), and harder for those that are so in love with the Nikon line -- what GOOD THINGS can the we expect also from the 70D in this part of the camera's feature set???. Please?

you are right on this one,people get confused with numbers AND COMPARES ONE BRAND TO ANOTHER, why not mention Pentax, Sony, Olympus while you are at it!

Get outside and take pics, the tool is not that important, specially at $1149
Still is a powerful one, indeed!
Light is the matter, and a few good lenses! and artistic sense!




  
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lsquare
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Aug 30, 2013 09:01 |  #98

jdizzle wrote in post #16252801 (external link)
There is valid reason to bring FF sensors into this discussion bcoz' Nikon has the advantage in DR. Whether we like it or not it's fact. I can attest the validity bcoz' I've used all the current FF cameras from both camps. If I were to post my findings/images on this forum the whiney knit pickers would cry. :p I guess people don't like to hear the truth. ;) Now, with the 70D vs. D7100 it should be common knowlege for most that the Nikon would perform better from a DR stand point. High ISO doesn't matter with both camps since they're a tie.

It wouldn't matter since the D7100 have the advantage in DR as well. In fact, even Sony's A77 have an advantage in DR when compared against the 70D.




  
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Aug 30, 2013 10:20 |  #99

lsquare wrote in post #16253106 (external link)
It wouldn't matter since the D7100 have the advantage in DR as well. In fact, even Sony's A77 have an advantage in DR when compared against the 70D.

I think that's what jdizzle just said.


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Aug 30, 2013 10:23 |  #100

sega62 wrote in post #16252808 (external link)
you are right on this one,people get confused with numbers AND COMPARES ONE BRAND TO ANOTHER, why not mention Pentax, Sony, Olympus while you are at it!

Get outside and take pics, the tool is not that important, specially at $1149
Still is a powerful one, indeed!
Light is the matter, and a few good lenses! and artistic sense!

Keep in mind that this is the "Equipment talk" forum where folks can come to discuss all things equipment related down to the minutest detail. Telling someone to just go out and shoot and that the tool is not important sort of goes against the whole point of this forum. For those that do not want to participate in equipment discussions, there are plenty of sharing forums as well where the whole point is to go out and shoot.


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Aug 30, 2013 11:45 |  #101

lsquare wrote in post #16253106 (external link)
It wouldn't matter since the D7100 have the advantage in DR as well. In fact, even Sony's A77 have an advantage in DR when compared against the 70D.

Thanks for pointing that out. ;)

gjl711 wrote in post #16253363 (external link)
I think that's what jdizzle just said.

Hehe! :)




  
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Aug 30, 2013 13:54 |  #102

lsquare wrote in post #16253106 (external link)
It wouldn't matter since the D7100 have the advantage in DR as well. In fact, even Sony's A77 have an advantage in DR when compared against the 70D.

As does olympus's newest m4/3 cameras.

Actually have been wondering if I should keep my canon kit. At this point it looks like if Olympus releases their 2.8 70-200 equal zoom as well with the e-m1 and the test results shows their new PAF on sensor is good, I might very well do that as I really enjoy the small size. And selling all my canon kit would let me fund all the lens I want/need.

My two cent is that I was hoping the new APS-C sensor will put canon back into the game crop wise but it's a disappointment. That and they don't seem to have any plans to update the 17-55 means they are no longer an attractive option. Even the 18mp sensor is let down by the 17-55. The 20 is not going to make that lens look that much better.


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Aug 30, 2013 17:36 |  #103

gjl711 wrote in post #16253375 (external link)
Keep in mind that this is the "Equipment talk" forum where folks can come to discuss all things equipment related down to the minutest detail. Telling someone to just go out and shoot and that the tool is not important sort of goes against the whole point of this forum. For those that do not want to participate in equipment discussions, there are plenty of sharing forums as well where the whole point is to go out and shoot.

well equipment is not important, since some people with a 5d makes better pics than the 5d3
Its just a tool, and comparing to another brand is like comparing apples and bananas.....
I'd like to see the main difference, not just typing some figures.

Again, the 70d will be a killer, better than the 7100.....for sure
DR is not all!




  
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Aug 30, 2013 18:10 |  #104

sega62 wrote in post #16254503 (external link)
well equipment is not important, since some people with a 5d makes better pics than the 5d3
Its just a tool, and comparing to another brand is like comparing apples and bananas.....
I'd like to see the main difference, not just typing some figures.

Again, the 70d will be a killer, better than the 7100.....for sure
DR is not all!

The 70D will be a killer when it comes to live view and movie recording, in no other way does it really seem all that revolutionary, as we have seen all its features on other cameras. The only absolute new thing added to this camera is its 40mpx sensor that can AF across 80% of the sensor when the mirror is up, everything else has already debuted elsewhere. It indeed is a very nice step up from the 60D however, that is sure, but not necessarily in the IQ department, but certainly in the features and function.


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Aug 30, 2013 18:24 |  #105

sega62 wrote in post #16254503 (external link)
well equipment is not important, since some people with a 5d makes better pics than the 5d3
Its just a tool, and comparing to another brand is like comparing apples and bananas.....
I'd like to see the main difference, not just typing some figures

You missed my point. This forum that you are posting on is specifically here to discuss equipment and breaking it down to the minute differences. No one is claiming that one specific measurement should be used when evaluating a camera, but if you really believe that equipment is not important, why are you posting to an equipment forum?


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