Suggestions for Improving an Airliner Photo

Hello all,

This is my first time posting here; till now I've been in awe of the skill shown on this forum! As I'm still learning a lot, I was hoping maybe to benefit from your collective expertise.

My question revolves around how to get a more sharp photo of an airliner than what you see below. Do you see anything in the photo and the settings I used that jump out as a mistake?

Here's the particulars of this photo: Canon 6D with 200mm f/2.8L II + Extender EF 2x III (I realize that extenders aren't great, but with a good quality lens, the degradation should be less damaging than it might be to a cheap lens) This is my greatest reach.

Settings: Manual exposure, 1/800, f/5.6 (the lens combo won't do AF smaller than that) and ISO 200

I suppose the logical thing to do would be to move to 1/1000 + ISO 320 or 400, however I did try a few shots at that combo and they were even less less sharp. So I'm a little confused.

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/mikekukavica/9​711408125/

Higher shutter speed, since you don't need prop blur nor background blur. Raise the ISO as needed to use something in the 1/1000 area or faster. The higher the shutter speed the better for SHARP but how high before noise creeps in depends on the body used.

Did you shoot RAW? Sharpen that image at all? Every image needs some sharpening & RAW gives you a bigger file size to work with.

I suggest that first you run a tripod test to see what aperture gives you the best sharpness with the 2X. Then you can adjust the other settings to take advantage of that.

And...
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only other thing I'd mention is using AI Servo focus to track the plane...

Hi Guys! Thanks for the suggestions!

cicopo wrote in post #16286629
Higher shutter speed, since you don't need prop blur nor background blur. Raise the ISO as needed to use something in the 1/1000 area or faster. The higher the shutter speed the better for SHARP but how high before noise creeps in depends on the body used.

cicopo: I'm planning on raising the shutter speed as you suggested. Since I'm still on a steep uphill learning curve, I'm thinking of starting off in ISO auto, to get an idea what the camera thinks is right - and then I can experiment from there. At least in terms of ISO, the auto setting seems to default to a higher than needed value.

PhotosGuy wrote in post #16286680
Did you shoot RAW? Sharpen that image at all? Every image needs some sharpening & RAW gives you a bigger file size to work with.

I suggest that first you run a tripod test to see what aperture gives you the best sharpness with the 2X. Then you can adjust the other settings to take advantage of that.

PhotosGuy: I just realized I should have added post processing to the photo info - doh! Yes, the photo was shot in RAW, and edited in DPP. I left the sharpening / Unsharp mask at the default settings, maybe I should have bumped it up a bit. Sometimes I'll use the lens profile for sharpness, however in this case there isn't one for either the lens nor lens + extender.

I hadn't considered doing a test to see the ultimate sharpness, however that's a good idea!

joeseph wrote in post #16287188
only other thing I'd mention is using AI Servo focus to track the plane...

joeseph: Yes, AI Servo is my friend! I've usually used the center point, but have been wondering if I should change it to all the points. The 6D manual says that if you have all the points on, the camera starts with the center point and then adds others, so maybe it's the same after all.

Last Friday, I managed to get to a decent view of the runway when the 340 was scheduled to take off, but in the rush I forgot to check the flight status...needless to say I wasted my time because it was delayed and my window passed. Oh well, I won't give up!

Tomorrow will be a good chance to practice, as the same Korean Air 777 is taking off within 10 minutes of a Delta 747, and I intend on being there!

Thanks again for the advice.

Mike

I use 1/1000 shutter speed and single point, AI servo for airliners.
I find it helps if you aim the focus point at areas of higher contrast on the plane.
For this plane, I would try to keep the focus point on the Korean Air lettering or along the windows where the light blue goes to grey.
Steve

I honestly think that shooting at f/8-f/11 would improve IQ considerably with that lens combination. PhotosGuy is correct, you should find out what aperture gives you the best sharpness with that combo.

Yes, you could raise your ISO for more shutter speed, just keep in mind the noise factor. This is where practicing slow shutter speed panning pays off. You might also try high speed burst. You should get at least one really sharp shot out of the series.

Also keeping the focus point on the lettering isn't a bad idea but I would attempt to hold the center focus point on a very specific spot, say, within the upper loop of the R in Korean. Of course the most important ingredient, practice.

jwol wrote in post #16301680
I honestly think that shooting at f/8-f/11 would improve IQ considerably with that lens combination. PhotosGuy is correct, you should find out what aperture gives you the best sharpness with that combo.

Yes, you could raise your ISO for more shutter speed, just keep in mind the noise factor. This is where practicing slow shutter speed panning pays off. You might also try high speed burst. You should get at least one really sharp shot out of the series.

Also keeping the focus point on the lettering isn't a bad idea but I would attempt to hold the center focus point on a very specific spot, say, within the upper loop of the R in Korean. Of course the most important ingredient, practice.

jwol: I agree with what you are saying about the aperture setting; however the camera is not capable of AF at anything less than f/5.6. So I've been trying to deal with that; next time I will try your suggestion - most importantly practice! This is the most important ingredient, for sure. And I have a lot of practice in my future!

Also, I have used burst shooting, although I need to use my fastest card. Stupidly, I had the less than fastest card in the camera, and while shooting this 747 ran into the card's write limitation.

In any case, based on the feedback up till yesterday ( 1/1000, f/5.6, ISO 400), this is the result:

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/mikekukavica/9​779644531/

Unless there's been a big change in the camera's OS you can set it for F8 or F11 without affecting the AF. It still uses the wide open setting to AF but closes down when taking the shot. There are lenses which use f6.3 as the widest opening but they tell the camera it's f5.6 so the AF will work even though the manual says it won't; much like people try by taping pins on TC's to trick the camera.

It hit me last night how dumb I am - the camer will autofocus the lens even with the extender, at any aperture setting. However, if the maximum aperture is smaller than f/5.6 the camera (6D) won't autofocus at all.

Embarrassing, that...

Mike, the last photo is looking better. Try stopping the lens down to f/8 or so. You'll be giving up shutter speed unless you up ISO. Higher ISO or slower shutter, your call.

Something else that will also help you is shooting with the sun at your back. Is there an area you can access that will get you on the south side of the runway, especially later in the day? You might try an internet search for a spotters group in your area. They'll know what areas you can access around the airport that will give you good photos of the aircraft, without being arrested.

jwol wrote in post #16304433
Mike, the last photo is looking better. Try stopping the lens down to f/8 or so. You'll be giving up shutter speed unless you up ISO. Higher ISO or slower shutter, your call.

Something else that will also help you is shooting with the sun at your back. Is there an area you can access that will get you on the south side of the runway, especially later in the day? You might try an internet search for a spotters group in your area. They'll know what areas you can access around the airport that will give you good photos of the aircraft, without being arrested.

John, first of all, I looked at your website and all I can say is WOW! And thank you for the advice.

As it turns out, I'll be in LA for a short time this upcoming week and this is my next chance to practice some more. According to Korean Air's schedule, the 380 takes off at 1 PM, so I'll be trying to spy that thing. That's not a great time for lighting though. I'm also going to try to get to the Proud Bird in the evening and catch some landing into the sunset.

So the new baseline is going to be 1/1000, f/8 and ISO 400. That should be a good place to start from, and see where it goes.

Thanks again!

Mike

Hello Friends,

Two Mondays ago, I had another go from the 'recycling center' near the airport and came away with this:

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …mikekukavica/10​102791716/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …mikekukavica/10​146385403/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …mikekukavica/10​146256835/

If I'm reading this right you say you've been using a polarizer on the earlier shots but not the last 2. Could be it's softening them too. What brand is it & have you tried testing with vs without on a similar pair of photos.

cicopo, I'm using B+W filters, both with the MRC coating. Since they have a good reputation for quality, I'm hoping they aren't causing a lack of sharpness.

I do need to make a back to back evaluation with and without though.