HELP!! 70D vs 7D, which to buy!

hairy_moth wrote in post #16312393
I just took a look at the 70D manual, it does have the one AF mode that blew me away when I started using the 7D and that I thought the 70D did not have: 19-point AF auto selection with AI Servo AF, the manually-selected AF
point <□> is used first to achieve focus. (page 107 of the 70D manual).

That mode is awesome for sports, you can lock onto a soccer player, for example, and stay on him, even when someone runs into your frame halfway between you and your subject.

I stand corrected on that point.

You're absolutely right. And sadly, that's the mode many people don't know about or don't know correctly

A lot of people believe that the 19-point AF should not be used since they claim that the camera will select the nearest object with sufficient contrast. Which is true in One Shot mode
However, in AI Servo, just like you said, you can actually select the starting AF point and the camera will track that subject across all 19 points. And it actually works pretty well (not always though). So that is a very valuable addition to the various AF modes.

Yesterday, I killed an hour at BestBuy playing with the 70D. I must say that I was thoroughly impressed, primarily with the AF system. I currently use a 60D. I have shot a 7D, but only in One-Shot. My perspective is purely that of a 60D shooter. Oh, I don't do video and have LV disabled on my 60D. Neither is a factor for me.

A few comments, if you'll indulge me. The AF system on the 70D is butt-stupid easy to master. I set it up to rotate through all three types of AF: full auto, single point & zone. Controlling its responsiveness, through the menu system, is quick, easy and intuitive. After spending an hour with this camera, I would feel confident using it to shoot a high-school sporting event. I know I could make it outperform my 60D.

In reference to the full-auto AF mode. I find it useless in One-Shot, on any camera. In AI-Servo it really shines, because it allows you to select the starting point. This is huge. No more starting with the center point and hoping the camera (60D) can keep up with the action while I try to stay on target AND recompose.

The zone mode may be as much of a burden as a blessing. I see it helping when you have a larger target, and getting in the way with smaller targets. The nice thing is that AF mode is so easy to change, that an experienced user should be able to turn on a dime.

I liked some of the other doodads, but I wouldn't use them that often: 7 shot bracketing, HDR, wifi, flippy screen. What can you do? Marketing departments do have input. Some reviews tell you that you must be in LV to use the 'creative affects.' Not true. They can be applied after the fact to any shot.

One thing I did not like was the dumbing down (or continuing stupidity) of the flash commander mode. There is still no Group C (background) flash ability in the 70D. The 7D has it. The 5DIII has it. The 70D still only manages Groups A & B. If you are an EX flash multi-gun user, this will matter to you. It requires you to put an EX (550 or better) on the hot shoe if you want a Group C. C'mon Canon! Why are you hobbling a perfectly useable flash commander system?

YashicaFX2 wrote in post #16312448
One thing I did not like was the dumbing down (or continuing stupidity) of the flash commander mode. There is still no Group C (background) flash ability in the 70D. The 7D has it. The 5DIII has it. The 70D still only manages Groups A & B. If you are an EX flash multi-gun user, this will matter to you. It requires you to put an EX (550 or better) on the hot shoe if you want a Group C. C'mon Canon! Why are you hobbling a perfectly useable flash commander system?

Whoa, now that's a bit disappointing. Good find. Not sure if this showstopper, but disappointing nonetheless.

While it is disappointing that there is no Group C flash, whether it's a dumbing down or not depends on what you compare it to. AFAIK he 60D has only 2 groups too (haven't owned one for at least a year). The 7D and 5DIII are supposed to be "higher" class cameras I guess, so considering that the 70D is technically still part of the xxD line (successor of the 60D), having only A and B groups makes sense even if it hurts

I don't think the Group C thing is a show stopper. Disappointing? A bit. However, I already own enough EX flash units to work around this limitation on my 60D, so it is nothing I am not used to. Fixing it would have been nice. It was not necessary, for me at least.

While I found the 70D quite interesting, my big motivation of late is the better ISO 3200+ performance of the latest crop of full-frame bodies. I have been eye-balling the 6D, but feel that its AF system is too hobbled to make it a good general purpose shooter. I like my 60D's dual cross f/2.8 center point and 8 supplementary f/5.6 cross points. My 60D does not let me down in the AF department often. The same cannot be said about my 5D, especially the outer points. The 6D still has only mono-directional outer AF points. I don't know that it would be an issue, but I suspect it may. That leaves me with the 5DIII. It has all the goodies I would like, maybe too many. The primary drawback with the 5DIII is the price. It would surely allow me to sell my 60D and 5D, but that would require replacing the 10-22 with a 17-40, at least, and replacing the 15-85 with a 24-70, most likely the f/4 version. And that, my friends, is a financial commitment I am not prepared to make just yet.

Perhaps my best option right now is to get the 70D, sell the 60D, and forgo the high ISO abilities of the 6D and 5DIII, for now. Still thinking, but man the AF system on that 70D was nice!

I shoot with two Canon 7D cameras and purchased the second 7D after the introduction of the 70D...

That may give you an indication of where I stand on this issue...

However, 7-shot bracketing would be nice!

RPCrowe wrote in post #16312777
I shoot with two Canon 7D cameras and purchased the second 7D after the introduction of the 70D...

That may give you an indication of where I stand on this issue...

However, 7-shot bracketing would be nice!

but have you tried the 70D?


if i had a 7D, there's no way i'd go for a 70D...but coming from a 40D i'm pretty sure that i'll be going for the 70D...the only few advantages that would affect me that i can think of on the 7D are 100% viewfinder, and the extra 1fps...i guess there are more AF modes, but from what i've seen in reviews the 70D AF seems to do well enough on it's own

RPCrowe wrote in post #16312777
I shoot with two Canon 7D cameras and purchased the second 7D after the introduction of the 70D...

That may give you an indication of where I stand on this issue...

However, 7-shot bracketing would be nice!

This begs the question, what feature(s) do you find so indispensable on the 7D? I was considering the 70D primarily for the AF, which the 7D probably does better. I am leaning towards the 70D because it is newer, and the controls more closely match my 60D.

YashicaFX2 wrote in post #16312552
I don't think the Group C thing is a show stopper. Disappointing? A bit. However, I already own enough EX flash units to work around this limitation on my 60D, so it is nothing I am not used to. Fixing it would have been nice. It was not necessary, for me at least.

While I found the 70D quite interesting, my big motivation of late is the better ISO 3200+ performance of the latest crop of full-frame bodies. I have been eye-balling the 6D, but feel that its AF system is too hobbled to make it a good general purpose shooter. I like my 60D's dual cross f/2.8 center point and 8 supplementary f/5.6 cross points. My 60D does not let me down in the AF department often. The same cannot be said about my 5D, especially the outer points. The 6D still has only mono-directional outer AF points. I don't know that it would be an issue, but I suspect it may. That leaves me with the 5DIII. It has all the goodies I would like, maybe too many. The primary drawback with the 5DIII is the price. It would surely allow me to sell my 60D and 5D, but that would require replacing the 10-22 with a 17-40, at least, and replacing the 15-85 with a 24-70, most likely the f/4 version. And that, my friends, is a financial commitment I am not prepared to make just yet.

Perhaps my best option right now is to get the 70D, sell the 60D, and forgo the high ISO abilities of the 6D and 5DIII, for now. Still thinking, but man the AF system on that 70D was nice!

If you're still a bit interested in the 6D, I'd say don't let the AF system stop you.
I've had a 6D for months now, along with my 7D, and I'm perfectly fine with the AF system. For one it focuses in significantly lower light than the 7D, I tested that several times, so it's not just a marketing claim.

The peripheral AF points are actually much better than most people (who usually don't own a 6D) claim. I've shot entire gigs in relatively low light using only the upper center point, granted it was static subjects (youth symphony orchestra concert). My keeper rate was excellent. (Used my 24-105L for that).

As for AF speed, I'm just finishing up a test video (which I'll post here soon I think), where I am comparing the AF speed in one-shot mode between the 7D and 6D. The lenses I used were Canon's 24-105 L (USM) and Tamron's 24-70 2.8 VC. I did the test for center and off center points. The results are surprising. But again this was a 'one-shot' AF test...

So I bought the 6D despite many people claiming the AF of the 6D wasn't much better than that of a piece of dead rock I was pleasantly surprised on several fronts; speed, accuracy and peripheral points usability.

Sorry about going off topic.

RPCrowe wrote in post #16312777
I shoot with two Canon 7D cameras and purchased the second 7D after the introduction of the 70D...

I don't understand this rationale when you already have a 7D....

I'm a newbie at this. I've played around with my friend's T3i a bunch and now want to get my own camera.

After watching a bunch of youtube videos, the quality on the videos shot by the 7D just appear to be better than the 70d. Am I just imagining this? Is this probably just because of the lenses used/editing or is there something in the way that the cameras are built that the 7D could actually look better in video?

for video, i don't really think it's a contest...the 70D is way better suited for that...

could just be that the good 7D videos get more views, and pop up in your searches...meanwhile all the bad ones are left in the dust...and the 70D doesn't have many videos, so you're seeing everything...good, bad, and ugly...

Hendrix908 wrote in post #16312975
I'm a newbie at this. I've played around with my friend's T3i a bunch and now want to get my own camera.

After watching a bunch of youtube videos, the quality on the videos shot by the 7D just appear to be better than the 70d. Am I just imagining this? Is this probably just because of the lenses used/editing or is there something in the way that the cameras are built that the 7D could actually look better in video?

Video? 70D.

gabebalazs wrote in post #16312405
A lot of people believe that the 19-point AF should not be used since they claim that the camera will select the nearest object with sufficient contrast.

Interesting timing on this conversation. I have always been really happy with this* mode. On Sunday, however, I was taking pictures of my son's football game; it seemed like the camera was simply picking the highest contrast region of the frame and focusing on that (whether that was in front of or well behind the subject) with very little evidence that it was actually tracking.)

I noticed this at halftime while reviewing my shots. I went into the Custom Function Settings and first changed C.Fn III -1 AI Servo tracking sensitivity from medium (the default setting) to medium slow. I got better results, but was still displeased. A few minutes later I changed it to slow and was again very happy with the results I was getting using this mode.

I don't know why this was more of a problem Sunday than it had been in the past for soccer, lacrosse, swimming, etc. but my results were really bad. (It very possibly was because there was more high contrast surroundings in this stadium than I other venues).

Anyway, after changing the settings, I began to (again) get results that I was pleased with.


*19-point AF auto selection with AI Servo AF, the manually-selected AF point <□> is used first to achieve focus. (page 107 of the 70D manual).

People commonly set that slider down to the left or one from the left. This is how it was often set with the 1Ds I had too.