HELP!! 70D vs 7D, which to buy!

whothafunk wrote in post #16335675
JPEG. and no, i have used 550D for 2 years now and i know its limits and capabilities. i shot several matched in Zavrč (place in those pictures) at the same hour and conditions and no, definitely not. 550D doesnt come close.

Yes, the JPG engine (something Canon should have addressed a long time ago) was overhauled, so it now has more aggressive but better NR, better everything really. They also updated DPP to match. If you shoot raw, the differences are substantially less overwhelming, based on back to raw images that many have taken and shared.

Canon has really put forth some effort on the software/firmware side of the house in the past few years!

As to my disbelief, and you having both cameras, it is quite easy to shoot a raw image from both, setting them up identically and exposing identically, and processing identically.

The 70D definitely produces better JPGs than the 7D, for the JPG shooters amongst us.

Canon would never do it, but it would be fun if they would update the JPG engine in a subsequent firmware update on the 7D. That would create some ripples.

i didnt say anything about RAW and i do believe the difference between 18MP and the new 20MP will be minimal regarding ISO noise.

however, 7D jpegs never really were something to write home about. people complained about its softness and noise throughout the whole ISO range. 550D was supposedly only a tad better. 70D is quite a lot better in that regard in my opinion.

whothafunk wrote in post #16335694
i havent said anything about RAW and i do believe the difference between 18MP and the new 20MP will be minimal regarding ISO noise.

however, 7D jpegs never really were something to write home about. people complained about its softness and noise throughout the whole ISO range. 550D was supposedly only a tad better. 70D is quite a lot better in that regard in my opinion.

Again for the JPG shooters, the new JPG engine found in one or two of the 18mpx APS-Cs released recently, and the 70D, definitely comes with advantages.

However for this particular thread, discussing the raw differences vs the JPG differences is fair game, even though the OP has been banned yet again.

TeamSpeed...if you didn't own a 7D, and were upgrading from a previous XXD camera...which one would you go with?

i really don't see why anyone would go from a 7D to the 70D

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16335684
Canon would never do it, but it would be fun if they would update the JPG engine in a subsequent firmware update on the 7D. That would create some ripples.

Bit off topic, but does the new DPP have any effect on 7D Raw -> jpeg conversion? Or would that be too easy? Presumably it is only improved with 70D raw files (is this what you meant above?)

DreDaze wrote in post #16335703
TeamSpeed...if you didn't own a 7D, and were upgrading from a previous XXD camera...which one would you go with?

i really don't see why anyone would go from a 7D to the 70D

Depends on the AF performance, I use spot AF a bunch and expansion modes a bunch, they are my primary modes. However I would have to temper that with the fact that I may not always have to shoot raw and just use JPGs with some tweaking.

I couldn't use any of the xxD or xxxD cameras for what I shoot, they were just too limiting, so I might not be the best target audience for that question. I just like to drill into comments that people make that ABC just blows them away as compared to XYZ, because invariably, you find that it is not really the raw sensor data that creates that view of betterment, it is other features or software that cause that.

If you were using a 60d/50D/40D, then by all means the 70D is a much, much better option, because you know less about what you are losing vs a 7D, and know more of what you are gaining with the 70D. If you had been using a 5D3 or a 1D series, and wanted an APS-C body, the decision isn't as clear cut.

Copidosoma wrote in post #16335734
Bit off topic, but does the new DPP have any effect on 7D Raw -> jpeg conversion? Or would that be too easy? Presumably it is only improved with 70D raw files (is this what you meant above?)

I am not sure. The only way to really know is to load up a version of DPP from the 7D disc, run a raw file through it. Then take the newest version of DPP and run the same raw file through it. Good question, I always assumed that Canon wouldn't spend the time to try to hamper processing by camera model, but really, if the code simply has case statements by the model # to run certain functions/methods, it wouldn't really be that difficult. The 70D would just invoke a different set of methods than the 7D section of code.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16335741
Depends on the AF performance, I use spot AF a bunch and expansion modes a bunch, they are my primary modes. However I would have to temper that with the fact that I may not always have to shoot raw and just use JPGs with some tweaking.

I couldn't use any of the xxD or xxxD cameras for what I shoot, they were just too limiting, so I might not be the best target audience for that question. I just like to drill into comments that people make that ABC just blows them away as compared to XYZ, because invariably, you find that it is not really the raw sensor data that creates that view of betterment, it is other features or software that cause that.

If you were using a 60d/50D/40D, then by all means the 70D is a much, much better option, because you know less about what you are losing vs a 7D, and know more of what you are gaining with the 70D. If you had been using a 5D3 or a 1D series, and wanted an APS-C body, the decision isn't as clear cut.

yeah, coming from a 40D, i know it'll be an improvement...right now for me the only advantage I see (as someone with no experience with either) for the 7D is the FPS, 100% viewfinder, and the extra AF modes

right now i think i'm just getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger on a 70D though...unless they announce a 7D II soon

DreDaze wrote in post #16335757
yeah, coming from a 40D, i know it'll be an improvement...right now for me the only advantage I see (as someone with no experience with either) for the 7D is the FPS, 100% viewfinder, and the extra AF modes

right now i think i'm just getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger on a 70D though...unless they announce a 7D II soon

I agree, coming from a 40D, I would go to the 70D. Newer, more features, cleaner JPGs, and under warranty.

Basketball season is about to start, and I will know how well the 5D3 will do. I lose reach using the 70-200 now, but perhaps I will try the 1.4x on it to get some of that back. I don't necessarily need the f2.8, but we will see.

I will still bring the 7D just in case. Perhaps I will shoot the 50-500 on the 5D3 and 70-200 on the 7D!

spear wrote in post #16334998
What makes you say the 7D AF is better than the 70D. All I am reading seems to suggest that the 70D AF is dramatically better. IMHO auto focus ability in a camera is one of the most important criteria, and a picture that is in focus from an inferior camera will always be sharper and clearer than a more expensive camera that has a much better sensor with much better high ISO abilities. I would be very disappointed if Canon did not use the technology it has with AF on its newer cameras. The Canon 5DIII has an incredible AF system that is quite dated by today's standards, and it should be the lowest common denominator on all AF setups for the newer cameras. The physical cost of enabling a good AF system on a new camera is negligible as the major cost is in the R&D and not in materials used. It would be a shame if Canon is purposefully crippling its newer cameras by not using a good AF system.

I have not seen anything stating that the 70d has better autofocus except in live view and that is primarily for video.

Please correct me if I am wrong. Like many others I am considering adding a either a 7d or 70d to my T3i. Si far the 7d looks best for me. I don't shoot video and BIF is my main interest.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16335768

That's a great result from the 7D at ISO6400, it blows whothafunk's 70D soccer shots out of the water

DreDaze wrote in post #16334683
stop doing focus recompose...choose the point closest to what you want to be in focus...

Reading this comments, I was surprised, when I looked at your gear list, that you are not already shooting a 7D. Because of the joystick, this technique is a bit easier/quicker when using the 7D. Normally, when shooting, my thumb is sitting right on the joystick so that I can quickly choose my point and shoot.

(I'm not saying that you can't do this with the XXD bodies, just that, in this case, the nod goes to the 7D for ease of operation).

pentax1 wrote in post #16335868
That's a great result from the 7D at ISO6400, it blows whothafunk's 70D soccer shots out of the water

7D hehe? you wish

whothafunk wrote in post #16335965
7D hehe? you wish

Until you actually take up TeamSpeed's suggestion and show us some proper comparison shots your opinion is worthless.

whothafunk wrote in post #16335965
7D hehe? you wish

TeamSpeeds Basketball shot was taken with the 7D at ISO 6400