The term "Investment" on websites

benji25 wrote in post #16323142
Ok so now let's say you choose to get your wedding photos done as well as family portraits of your new family you are starting. Your house burns down.

What is the first thing people always say? I can replace my car, my house or my property but I can't replace the photos of my dead grandma or my newborn kid or my wedding. "

The value that you just lost is simply priceless. But as always value is subjective and I personally value irreplaceable memories more than any investment I have.

still not an investment. sentimental value never pays off. unless of course you insured your items. but then you are back to financial situation.

comparing something to an investment does not make something an investment.

Definition of INVEST

transitive verb
1
: to commit (money) in order to earn a financial return
2
: to make use of for future benefits or advantages <invested her time wisely>
3
: to involve or engage especially emotionally <were deeply invested in their children's lives>


Paying off does not necessarily mean only in money. If I spend $800 or spend 110 hours on something but I get perceived value of more than that then I put in something and got something of greater worth in return.

A financial investment is more specific than the definition of "investment" in general.

benji25 wrote in post #16323142
Ok so now let's say you choose to get your wedding photos done as well as family portraits of your new family you are starting. Your house burns down.

What is the first thing people always say? I can replace my car, my house or my property but I can't replace the photos of my dead grandma or my newborn kid or my wedding. "

The value that you just lost is simply priceless. But as always value is subjective and I personally value irreplaceable memories more than any investment I have.

As you stated... that value is subjective.

My wife thinks that a pair of shoes that are 50% off are of great value due to the savings... I don't care if she saves $50, when the bank statement shows a charge of $100. She will tell me over and over how she saved $50... and I can tell her over and over that she still spent $100, because the store marketed the savings to her. What is the 'value' in the sale? It's subjective.

If those photos are on a digital file in a safety deposit box, or available to be re-printed from the photographer, they're replaceable. If you paid the photographer to keep the digital files for such an event... then, sure it's an investment... back to the definition involving money invested and the material results.

With regard to investments... I think you gain or lose what you put in.

When you invest money you will receive a financial return (gain or loss).

A key here is that nothing else has to be done. When you make an investment, you put that money into a 401k and it automatically profits. You can spend all the time you want thinking about that 401k, but that time spent isn't going to accrue any additional gain. Likewise, you can be happy about it (emotional investment), but that's not going to increase the balance either.

I can invest time improving a process, so that I can perform a task more efficiently, thus saving time later. I could invest time in learning how to use my camera more efficiently, so that I could complete a shoot faster than before. A by-product would be that by doing so I could potentially make more money this way... but I can't make more money without that increase in time gained by being more efficient; spend time to gain time.

I can spend time learning to do something myself, so that I don't have to pay someone else to do it. In this case, I wouldn't have to pay for this to be done (savings?) but that time has to be spent. I can't get that time back, so was anything really saved?

I can be emotionally invested in a relationship, in which I would hope to gain a friendship or more.

I can spend money on the person, but I can't buy the relationship. Likewise, I can sit in the same room with someone for a year (time) but it doesn't mean that we'd become friends It's takes an emotional investment to receive one.

drvnbysound wrote in post #16323249
With regard to investments... I think you gain or lose what you put in.


When you invest money you will receive a financial return (gain or loss).

A key here is that nothing else has to be done. When you make an investment, you put that money into a 401k and it automatically profits. You can spend all the time you want thinking about that 401k, but that time spent isn't going to accrue any additional gain. Likewise, you can be happy about it (emotional investment), but that's not going to increase the balance either.


I can invest time improving a process, so that I can perform a task more efficiently, thus saving time later. I could invest time in learning how to use my camera more efficiently, so that I could complete a shoot faster than before. A by-product would be that by doing so I could potentially make more money this way... but I can't make more money without that increase in time gained by being more efficient; spend time to gain time.

I can spend time learning to do something myself, so that I don't have to pay someone else to do it. In this case, I wouldn't have to pay for this to be done (savings?) but that time has to be spent. I can't get that time back, so was anything really saved?


I can be emotionally invested in a relationship, in which I would hope to gain a friendship or more.

I can spend money on the person, but I can't buy the relationship. Likewise, I can sit in the same room with someone for a year (time) but it doesn't mean that we'd become friends It's takes an emotional investment to receive one.

Why do you assume all benefits must be measured in money?

If that is your world view then I feel really bad for you.

Edit: What to you call something where you put time or money in that you hope to expect a benefit (financial (which is objective) or otherwise (something of subjective value)) later?

All I am saying is that you are using a more specific definition of investment. I am not saying it is wrong I am just saying it is more specific (monetary investments)

benji25 wrote in post #16323362
Why do you assume all benefits must be measured in money?

If that is your world view then I feel really bad for you.

I'm not actually sure how you got to that point. The most recent definition that you provided showed 3 types of investment; financial, time, and emotional. I provided examples of each investment type where... maybe you missed the first sentence of my response:

drvnbysound wrote in post #16323249
With regard to investments... I think you gain or lose what you put in.

Each of the examples I provided were as such; here are the ones for time and emotion again...

I can be emotionally invested in a relationship, in which I would hope to gain a friendship or more.

I can spend money on the person, but I can't buy the relationship. Likewise, I can sit in the same room with someone for a year (time) but it doesn't mean that we'd become friends It's takes an emotional investment to receive one.

benji25 wrote in post #16323362
Edit: What to you call something where you put time or money in that you hope to expect a benefit (financial (which is objective) or otherwise (something of subjective value)) later?

All I am saying is that you are using a more specific definition of investment. I am not saying it is wrong I am just saying it is more specific (monetary investments)

What have you put time into, where you have expected a financial profit without any financial investment?

What have you invested money in, where you expected a gain in time?

Ask the good sales/marketing guys... money is spent when people make emotional purchases. When you buy something because you think it will make you look/feel better, it's an impulse purchase.

drvnbysound wrote in post #16323249
With regard to investments... I think you gain or lose what you put in.


When you invest money you will receive a financial return (gain or loss).

A key here is that nothing else has to be done. When you make an investment, you put that money into a 401k and it automatically profits. You can spend all the time you want thinking about that 401k, but that time spent isn't going to accrue any additional gain. Likewise, you can be happy about it (emotional investment), but that's not going to increase the balance either.


I can invest time improving a process, so that I can perform a task more efficiently, thus saving time later. I could invest time in learning how to use my camera more efficiently, so that I could complete a shoot faster than before. A by-product would be that by doing so I could potentially make more money this way... but I can't make more money without that increase in time gained by being more efficient; spend time to gain time.

I can spend time learning to do something myself, so that I don't have to pay someone else to do it. In this case, I wouldn't have to pay for this to be done (savings?) but that time has to be spent. I can't get that time back, so was anything really saved?


I can be emotionally invested in a relationship, in which I would hope to gain a friendship or more.

I can spend money on the person, but I can't buy the relationship. Likewise, I can sit in the same room with someone for a year (time) but it doesn't mean that we'd become friends It's takes an emotional investment to receive one.

This is why i think that.

drvnbysound wrote in post #16323820
I'm not actually sure how you got to that point.

A job?

A cleaning service, a fast lane pass to get through rush hour, a computer that helps me cut my workflow time in half.

No it isn't. An impulse purchase is when you buy when you don't plan to. I buy a haircut once every two months, not an impulse purchase. I buy new work clothes, not an impulse purchase though they make me look better.

Come to think of it, when would you every buy something that DOESN'T make you look or feel better? If anything that would be an impulse buy because you are buying just to buy.

drvnbysound wrote in post #16323212
As you stated... that value is subjective.

It doesn't matter if it is subjective or objective.

The term "investment" just happens to mean more than some people thinks it does.

Your wifes shoes aren't an investment because they are sold at 50% even if that might mean they have a great price and are well worth the price.

But her shoes might still be an investment.
- it can be an investment in how she feels about the shoes or about herself.
- it can be an investment in her health, in case she have issues with some current shoes.

Because investments really can be subjective, it really does not matter if you manage to measure any actual economic gain or not. And it doesn't matter that the value is seen different by different persons.

Irrelevant, since the value in the photos isn't the cost to recover new copies or not - it's the value in having access to the photos 30 years from now. Technological chanegs doesn't really matter. It's still a question of "lost in foggy memory" or "captured for future viewing".

As long as you think "investment" means "must make money from", you are way off because that is only a subset of the meaning of the word.

In the quote you provided, the sentence clearly reads, "A by-product would be..." which means that the primarly gain is not financial.

A job an investment? I'd say it's a means to an end... I need to work to pay my bills and put food on the table.

Yes, I can pay someone to clean my house, mow my lawn, or walk my dog. I hardly consider those investments, but rather luxury services. Before you hire the person to clean your house, you have to first invest time to contact and hire someone to do the job. The exchange of money is again a by-product... which relates to perceived value of said services.

I'm not suggesting that anyone would consciously buy something that makes them feel bad. Again, key words... I stated when you buy something BECAUSE it makes you look/feel better, it's impulse. That said, this portion (marketing and impulse purchases) are off-topic of the original discussion of investments.

drvnbysound wrote in post #16324395
In the quote you provided, the sentence clearly reads, "A by-product would be..." which means that the primarly gain is not financial.

A job an investment? I'd say it's a means to an end... I need to work to pay my bills and put food on the table.

You asked me to name something where I invest time and get money so I did.

So the extra free time you have to see your kids play or extra stress relief are of no value to you?

And I stated that is completely false. I cut my hair because I look good. I am not impulse buying. I pay for a bike because I like to feel healthy. Not an impulse buy. I pay for a massage because my muscles are sore. Not an impulse buy. I pay for headache medicine because it makes me feel better. Not an impulse buy. I can go on all day.

An impulse buy would be I go in to buy a refridgerator and the salesman convinces me I need a new TV and it is "on sale" so I buy it on the spot.

Buying because you like something does not necessarily mean it is an impulse buy.

I want to reiterate the point that value is not only measured in money. People get value in subjective ways. You must not equate everything to money to see that it has value.

Well you might but most people don't.

I hate it. I'd never use it on my site and I'd never use a service that refers to its fees as an investment. And the real kicker is about 50% of those people don't have any pricing information on the investment page!

pwm2 wrote in post #16324287
It doesn't matter if it is subjective or objective.

The term "investment" just happens to mean more than some people thinks it does.

Your wifes shoes aren't an investment because they are sold at 50% even if that might mean they have a great price and are well worth the price.

But her shoes might still be an investment.
- it can be an investment in how she feels about the shoes or about herself.
- it can be an investment in her health, in case she have issues with some current shoes.

Because investments really can be subjective, it really does not matter if you manage to measure any actual economic gain or not. And it doesn't matter that the value is seen different by different persons.

Irrelevant, since the value in the photos isn't the cost to recover new copies or not - it's the value in having access to the photos 30 years from now. Technological chanegs doesn't really matter. It's still a question of "lost in foggy memory" or "captured for future viewing".

As long as you think "investment" means "must make money from", you are way off because that is only a subset of the meaning of the word.

By no means am I trying to imply that an investment can only be financial; I stated that in a previous post. I've stated that it can certainly pertain to time as well as emotion.

My wife's shoes aren't an investment to me regardless of how they make her feel; that's simply preceived value - which is the part that is subjective.

drvnbysound wrote in post #16324490
By no means am I trying to imply that an investment can only be financial; I stated that in a previous post. I've stated that it can certainly pertain to time as well as emotion.

My wife's shoes aren't an investment to me regardless of how they make her feel; that's simply preceived value - which is the part that is subjective.

...and just because it is subjective does not make it valuable/an investment.

Like I have been saying for a while now - you are using a more narrowly defined definition of investment (a financial investment). Like I also said before at a most basic level an investment is where you put something in and expect to get more value back at a later date(either subjective or objective).

benji25 wrote in post #16324438
You asked me to name something where I invest time and get money so I did.

Yes, I was asking you to name something where you invest time and receive money... since the topic is investment, I assumed that you would infer that I was asking you to also name something that you considered to be an investment.

It is of value; a perceived value, but that doesn't mean that I consider it an investment.

In all actuality, it really doesn't even matter... we're now discussing individual interpretations of a definition and how each of us defines the term investment. I have my own opinion of what it means, and every other user on this forum can have their opinion as well... it's subjective (1: based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions)

Personally, I don't care if they call it Pricing, Investment, Cost, or whatever else.

If I need a photographer, I'm going to choose based on style and talent. One word on a web site isn't going to make me not want a particular photographer.