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Thread started 01 Oct 2013 (Tuesday) 10:57
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government shutdown has devastating effect on U.S. nature photography

 
Tom ­ Reichner
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Oct 01, 2013 18:21 |  #31

Motor On wrote in post #16339206 (external link)
Nope, absolutely zero devastation here (the title did make me laugh; and nope, no devestation from the sequester yet either)

I did not mean to make you laugh! When I used the term "devastation", I did mean exactly that. I realize now, however, that many people here on POTN may look at nature/wildlife photography as an enjoyable pastime, able to be substituted with another pastime if need be. However, when I think of "nature photography", I think of the industry of nature photography - all of the people who do this for a living, to put bread on the table. To many of us, it is devastating. What about the guy who gives photography workshops in Yellowstone? He has three or four tours every year, and the profits from each tour provide him with a large percentage of the year's total personal income. He is now unable to give his fall tour, and may even have to cancel his mid-December tour, as well. So, roughly 40% of his total annual income may be lost. Don't you think the government closure is devastating to him?

As for me, I make most of my income from the sale of wildlife photos. The lion's share of these sales are of Whitetail Deer images. I have spent years doing exhaustive research on the best places to photograph mature (large antlered) Whitetail bucks. When the very best place in the western U.S. is shut down, it does have a devastating effect on my ability to provide new, fresh images to the stock photo market. And hence, my income, my livelihood will suffer for it.

Motor On wrote in post #16339206 (external link)
and I routinely see parts of the local National Forrest and some state lands shut down to give them a chance to recover from human touch

The "human touch" does not have an adverse affect on my photographic endeavors. If anything, the more people the better. Why? Well, the more people that the animals see, the more accustomed they become to people, which makes them less prone to take cover when I approach them with my camera. Lots of people make for more cooperative animals, which make for more good images.

Motor On wrote in post #16339206 (external link)
if this does go on for a few months, hopefully an undisturbed autumn will make for a much better spring to photograph.

Oh, if only the antlered game had their antlers in the spring! Unfortunately, the autumn is the time when all of the big game animals rut, and the rutting activity is what makes for good (and marketable) wildlife images. It is practically impossible to make a living from the sales of photos of deer and elk with no antlers, which you'll find in the spring.

Motor On wrote in post #16339206 (external link)
Tom (OP), take a serious look into going and finding something new in a state land to go photograph . . . Don't look on the plans lost, but the opportunity to expand your horizons, go on your vacation and try something completely new to you. Also most NPs I've been to have private land around them that's untouched, so if it must be that general area, take a look at campsites and similar areas that have private land that's preserved; may not always be well advertised, so it will probably require picking up the phone and trying a few locations.

This is good advice. And I am certainly no stranger to doing research to find new wildlife photo locations. In fact, I do so all through the year. In the course of a year, I write hundreds of emails, do thousands of Google searches, and spend hours on the phone - all in an effort to find new places to photograph Whitetail Deer (the big ones, with big antlers). I have found three locations, and possible a fourth, which should provide the types of opportunities I need to create the kinds of images I need. The closest one is in Colorado, about 1100 miles from where I live. I planned to spend the entirety of November photographing deer much closer to home, but if this government closure continues, I may have to spend November in Colorado, or in Minnesota. The problem is that I can not do either of these locations as cheaply as I can do the place close to home, so what is supposed to be 31 days of world-class Whitetail Deer photography may be reduced to just a week and a half or two weeks. Can I really expect to get as many marketable images in a week or two, at a new place, as I can get in a full month at a place I am very familiar with? I doubt it. I will certainly give it my very best, but if I think I will produce at the same level, I may be kidding myself.

This isn' just recreation, or a "vacation", as you said. It is my livelihood, and also the livelihood of hundreds of full-time nature photographers throughout the country. For us it is, indeed, devastating.


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"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Oct 01, 2013 20:11 |  #32

KeithS wrote in post #16339276 (external link)
Hmmm. I must be missing something.

Have you been there? There are millions of acres of grass land. Last time I checked walking on grass did not kill it (assuming it was not a heard of people). I mean, for god sakes buffalo and bears and every single other animal walks on it and it is ok.

I am not saying I want to trample an endangered flower. I know grass and weeds when I see them. Also, we LITERALLY walked from Wyoming into Montana - we were almost 10 miles out away from the nearest anything. It wasn't like it was a high trafficked area.


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Oct 02, 2013 01:33 |  #33

I would love to see the expression on some backcountry hiker's face as they emerge from a week on the trails, only to find a completely deserted park...they'd probably think the Apocalypse had come and gone while they were out camping!

But yeah, that sucks for those in the states. Fall is such a beautiful time...here in Canada too! Come on up eh?! Although the snowline has already come down the mountains be visible on the hills from my front door. Brrrrr.


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Kolor-Pikker
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Oct 02, 2013 04:53 |  #34

Snydremark wrote in post #16338874 (external link)
The difference is that, as of today, you can be fined and/or arrested, for a federal charge of trespassing for being present on those lands. The most likely scenario being a park ranger stopping you and telling you to "get off their lawn"; but the potential is there to get arrested and formally charged.

By whom?

Ok, I haven't had my morning coffee yet, but let me try to get this straight... The government essentially closes and lays off hundreds of thousands of staff all over the US "until further notice", except for the military, and yet it's still expected of the good hearted people to continue fulfilling their duty anyway?

hmmm....


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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
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Oct 02, 2013 04:54 |  #35

Tom Reichner wrote in post #16338252 (external link)
Here in the US, all of our National Parks, National Monuments, and National Wildlife Refuges are now closed to entry.

False.

In some cases, the parks remain open, it is the FACILITIES that are closed.

But yea, it's devastating to photographers. Especially to those who want to shoot the same boring slot canyon photo, or waterfall photo, or half dome photo, or.... that has been shot by millions before them tens of millions of time.


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Kolor-Pikker
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Oct 02, 2013 04:56 |  #36

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #16340238 (external link)
Especially to those who want to shoot the same boring slot canyon photo, or waterfall photo, or half dome photo, or.... that has been shot by millions before them tens of millions of time.

Hit the weak point for massive damage!


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Oct 02, 2013 05:16 |  #37

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #16340236 (external link)
By whom?

Ok, I haven't had my morning coffee yet, but let me try to get this straight... The government essentially closes and lays off hundreds of thousands of staff all over the US "until further notice", except for the military, and yet it's still expected of the good hearted people to continue fulfilling their duty anyway?

hmmm....

They use the term "furloughed" not laid off. Not that it really matters.

Certain people are deemed essential to maintain certain infrastructure. And yes, i believe they are asked to work without paychecks until such time that our "leaders" pull their heads from their asses. It is my understanding that these employees have always been paid in under these circumstances, just not in a timely manner.

here are a couple of articles

WWII Monument "Stormed" by veterans:
http://www.stripes.com …ernment-shutdown-1.244447 (external link)

Effect on early education for children:
http://www.washingtonp​ost.com …e-a1f23cda135e_story.htm​l (external link)


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Oct 02, 2013 06:17 |  #38

Wow - your access rights are pretty restrictive, not to say Stalinist.

Hereabouts, the presumption goes in the opposite direction - that you have right of access to any land, private and public, including national parks. There are historic reasons for this, not least, the Highland Clearances (external link).

Of course, there are obvious exceptions - blasting quarries, military installations. SSSIs (Sites of Special Scientific Interest - for rare plants and species.), etc..

Here - http://www.outdooracce​ss-scotland.com …sibly/your-access-rights/ (external link)

All the same, I hope your representatives get their act together and put an end to this nonsense pdq.


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Oct 02, 2013 07:34 |  #39

xhack wrote in post #16340303 (external link)
Wow - your access rights are pretty restrictive, not to say Stalinist.

...

Of course, there are obvious exceptions - blasting quarries, military installations. SSSIs (Sites of Special Scientific Interest - for rare plants and species.), etc..

There is a distinct difference between a National Park and a National Forest. As far as I know, all National Forests remain open to the public, but all services are shut down. National Parks are closed.

Parks often fit into a similar category as your SSSI areas, although designation as a NP can be made for unique scenic or geologic reasons as well. National Monuments are included in the Park system and are generally of historic significance or memorials in remembrance of a historic event.

We have (according to wiki) 51.9 million acres (210,000 km2) of NP. If my math is correct, this is ~4/5ths the size of Scotland. Of the total NP area, nearly half (approx 24 million acres), are comprised of 4 parks in the state of Alaska.

We have (same source) 190 million acres (297,000 mi²/769 000 km²) of NF. Nearly 4x the amount of land reserved for "Park" status.

There are also something like 12-14 million acres under the jurisdiction of individual states which are still open to the public.

The shutdown has clearly had a negative effect on Tom R, the original poster, but it is not going to stop anyone from going on a hike or go backpacking if they want to get out of the house for the weekend. Of course we all have our own tolerance level for skirting the law, but I still believe that there is plenty of opportunity for access to many of the National Parks. The thought of a few rangers trying to keep a determined hiker out of Denali or even the half million acres in the Great Smoky Mountains NP is a little silly. In my experience, most rangers are very reasonable and would respond with nothing more than "time to leave" or even "just be careful".


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Oct 02, 2013 09:14 |  #40

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #16340238 (external link)
False.

In some cases, the parks remain open, it is the FACILITIES that are closed.

But yea, it's devastating to photographers. Especially to those who want to shoot the same boring slot canyon photo, or waterfall photo, or half dome photo, or.... that has been shot by millions before them tens of millions of time.

Every report I have read - and I have read quite extensively - states that all national parks are closed; the public is not permitted to enter any of them. You say this is false; which parks are open? If you could supply us with a link to a report that tells us about a park we are still allowed to enter, it would be greatly appreciated.

Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #16340236 (external link)
By whom?

Ok, I haven't had my morning coffee yet, but let me try to get this straight... The government essentially closes and lays off hundreds of thousands of staff all over the US "until further notice", except for the military, and yet it's still expected of the good hearted people to continue fulfilling their duty anyway?

hmmm....

Kolor Pikker,
I am not sure why you are thinking the way you are. No one is expected to come to work without getting paid. Those who have been "laid off" are not asked to come to work; in fact, they are forbidden to come to work, even if they would like to do so.

Furthermore, the majority of federal workers are still working - it is only those in "non-essential positions" that are being kept off the job. All law enforcement personnel are still working, and getting paid as usual - and will continue to do so throughout the duration of the government shutdown. They are patrolling the parks to ensure that no one enters illegally.

Why did you have the impression that ALL government employees were laid off (except the military).

Why did you think that any employees were expected to fulfill their duty without getting paid? I have not seen any new reports that would back up either of these ideas/presuppositions.


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"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Oct 02, 2013 09:55 |  #41

Tom Reichner wrote in post #16340102 (external link)
I'd love to "come on up"! But these days, we need passports to enter Canada. And guess what the U.S. government is not doing during the shutdown . . . yep, that's right, they are not processing any passport applications. Very frustrating indeed.

Well come up one day if you can. If you see anything like this you know you have gone far enough north.

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Oct 02, 2013 10:30 |  #42

Yosemite is open (Tioga Pass) and its nice and quiet !!


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Oct 02, 2013 11:35 |  #43

squashed wrote in post #16340768 (external link)
Yosemite is open (Tioga Pass) and its nice and quiet !!

Isn't there a ranger station at the park entrance?


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Oct 02, 2013 11:45 |  #44

OhLook wrote in post #16340905 (external link)
Isn't there a ranger station at the park entrance?

Depends on what you consider an "entrance"


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Oct 02, 2013 12:01 |  #45

My long weekend with the family taking in some historic sites in Philadelphia has been scrubbed by the shutdown, as lots of those sites are federal. We may still hit the art museum for a day trip on Sunday, but a this point the shutdown has saved me about $1000.


  
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