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FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Lenses 
Thread started 19 Oct 2013 (Saturday) 07:52
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full frame macro for eyes and portraits

 
Nick ­ Aufiero
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Oct 19, 2013 07:52 |  #1

I will mainly shoot Eyeballs and Flowers.
Secondary will be shoulder up portrait styles.

Other than that it will be for whatever.


My set up
Canon 6D
Canon 17-40mm L Wide angle
Canon 50mm 1.4
Canon 85mm 1.8
Canon 430ex II
2x AB400 Studio strobes
Paul C Buff Wireless transmitter and 2x receivers
few stands/umbrellas/refle​ctors

I really like the 100mm L
Heard it was great and the IS was amazing. Also, seen some beautiful pictures without it, and from some other lenses (that may not be macro but could do what I wanted)

All thoughts are appreciated and valued highly.




  
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jefzor
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Oct 19, 2013 07:53 |  #2

The 100mm non L is also good.


www.jefpauwels.be (external link)

  
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Nick ­ Aufiero
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Oct 19, 2013 08:01 |  #3

jefzor wrote in post #16382577 (external link)
The 100mm non L is also good.

Which is what I've heard/seen.... and for half the price.

I just wanted to know if its worth waiting another month or so if I don't NEED the lens right at the moment.




  
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Maverique
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Oct 19, 2013 08:23 |  #4

http://www.photozone.d​e …ff/743-sigma105f28oseosff (external link)

I see this one selling for 469€ on one store here in Portugal.


My website (external link) | My facebook (external link) | My flickr (external link)

  
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Wilt
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Oct 19, 2013 10:37 |  #5

'Macro', even loosely defined, means reproduction scale of 1:2 and larger. In other words, if you only need to shoot something 1:3 or an area of 72mm x 108mm to fit in your 24x36mm 6D frame, you do not need a 'macro' lens. You can simply put a conventional (non-macro) lens on an extension tube and get closer than MFD


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amfoto1
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Oct 19, 2013 11:37 |  #6

Take your pick:

Canon 100/2.8 USM (non L/IS)
Canon 100/2.8L IS

Both Canon's are quite good. The newer L/IS has two main "upgrades" over the older non-L/IS version... First, obviously, it has stabilization. Canon uses a hybrid form of IS specifically developed for macro and it works better than most. Still, there's a limit to how much help you might expect from IS at true macro magnifications. At 1:1 it's likely one stop or less. The IS will be more effective at non-macro distances, maybe 3 or 4 stops worth.

Another improved feature on the 100L IS is the focus limiter. This is used to speed up focusing, by limiting the system to a particular range. The 100L IS offers three choices (full, macro, non-macro ranges) while the 100/2.8 USM only offers two (essentially full and non-macro).

Both lenses are IF or Internal Focusing... which means they don't grow longer when focused closer. This is an advantage that it doesn't cut into working distance from lens to subject. However to achieve IF, both Canon lenses are a bit larger than other similar focal length macro lenses. Also because of the IF feature, both lenses effectively change focal length as they are focused closer (you really don't notice this in the field when using them). I have heard that the 100/2.8 USM measures a "true" 70mm approx., when focused all the way to 1:1.

Both the 100mm Canon are unusual in that they can be fitted with a tripod mounting ring. I don't know of any third party macro lens in similar focal length offering this. You have to buy a 150mm or 180mm macro lens to get a tripod mounting ring, in most cases. The OEM Canon tripod rings are sold separately and are rather pricey.... aobut $175 for the 100/2.8 USM and about $190 for the ring to fit the 100L IS. But, there are cheaper (about $50) third party clone rings available for both lenses.

Both Canon 100mm macros have USM focus, which speeds up focusing... Macro lenses are inherently slower focusing because they have to move their focus groups a long, long way to go all the way from infinity to 1:1 magnification.

The 100L IS comes with a lens hood. It's sold separately for the 100/2.8 USM and is quite large... the Canon OEM hood is rather pricey, but there are cheaper third party clones available.

You also can consider some excellent third party macro lenses:

Tamron SP 90mm f2.8 USD VC.... this is a new model that's been upgraded with both faster USD focus drive (similar to Canon's USM) and stabilization (Tammy calls it VC).

Tamron SP 90mm f2.8... the older model without USD or VC is still available and sells at a considerably lower price.

Tokina 100/2.8.... doesn't have USM-type AF drive.

Sigma 105/2.8 HSM OS.... Siggy's HSM is similar to USM and their OS is similar to Canon's IS.

Sigma 105/2.8 HSM... the version without OS, now discontinued, but still can sometimes be found and is avail. used.

Zeiss 100/2.0 Makro ZE... manual focus only.... but the one of the few macro lenses with larger than f2.8 aperture.

Another lens that might be worth consideration is the Canon TS-E 90/2.8. This is a tilt shift lens, which allows the photography to adjust the plane of focus, among other things. It is manual focus only and even though it's very close focusing, isn't truly macro... but can be made to focus much closer with macro extension tubes.

In summary, all these macro lenses offer high image quality. That's generally not a concern. The Canon 100mm macro lenses offer most, perhaps all the most desirable features combined: USM focus, IF, tripod mounting ring, focus limiter.... and IS in the 100L IS. Some of the third party macros have some of these features, but none offer all of them.

There are also shorter and longer focal lengths... though I would think the 90 to 105mm range most ideal for portraiture on a FF camera. Sigma offers a 70/2.8 (no HSM or OS) as well as a 150/2.8 (current model has both HSM and OS).

Canon and most of the third party manufacturers also offer 50mm and 180mm macro lenses, but those are likely too short or too long for your purposes.

Canon and Tamron both offer 60mm macro lenses, but those are not FF lenses... they are "crop only".

Canon also offers the MP-E 65mm Macro... but this is a specialized, ultra-high magnification lens, starting at 1:1 and going up to 5:1 mag... and it's manual focus only. Probably not what you are looking for.

Personally I don't like macro lenses for portraiture. They can be too sharp and the largest aperture most macro lenses offer is f2.8. An alternative you might want to consider would be to use macro extension tubes on a non-macro portrait lens, so that it will focus closer and render higher magnification, for those times you want that. For example, you can add extension behind your 85/1.8, or could get a Canon 135/2L and use it with extensions, too.

If considering macro extension tubes, I recommend the Kenko set as the best quality, versatility and value. It includes 12mm, 20mm and 36mm tubes and sells for about $200 US. Canon themselves sells macro extension tubes, too... but only individually in 12mm and 25mm sizes. One of each of the Canon tubes would end up costing more than the Kenko set of three and still wouldn't be as versatile. There are cheaper, more plasticky tube sets, too (Zeikos, Opteka, etc.). Those might work for occasional use, but I think it's worth the extra expense for the better quality Kenko or Canon (Note: I have heard and read some reports of "bricked" 5D's with some of the cheaper tubes, though it seems rare and may not effect other Canon camera models).

The Canon 135/2L is a wonderful portrait lens on FF. Use it wide open for a somewhat dreamy or lyrical look. Or stop it down for superb but selective sharpness. It works fine with extension tubes, but with a longer focal length you need more extension to acheive very high magnfication. Native magnification possible with your 85/1.8 is 0.13X. The 135/2L's is a little greater at 0.19X. Add a 25mm extension tube to your 85mm and you'll get up to 0.44X, while the same tube on the 135mm gives slightly less: 0.41X. (A 12mm extension tube would give lower max magnification.... While the longer 36mm tube in the Kenko set offers higher mag.)

Have fun shopping!


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
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Nick ­ Aufiero
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Senior Member
462 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 87
Joined May 2013
Location: Tampa
     
Oct 20, 2013 01:32 |  #7

amfoto1 wrote in post #16382955 (external link)
Take your pick:

Canon 100/2.8 USM (non L/IS)
Canon 100/2.8L IS

Both Canon's are quite good. The newer L/IS has two main "upgrades" over the older non-L/IS version... First, obviously, it has stabilization. Canon uses a hybrid form of IS specifically developed for macro and it works better than most. Still, there's a limit to how much help you might expect from IS at true macro magnifications. At 1:1 it's likely one stop or less. The IS will be more effective at non-macro distances, maybe 3 or 4 stops worth.

Another improved feature on the 100L IS is the focus limiter. This is used to speed up focusing, by limiting the system to a particular range. The 100L IS offers three choices (full, macro, non-macro ranges) while the 100/2.8 USM only offers two (essentially full and non-macro).

Both lenses are IF or Internal Focusing... which means they don't grow longer when focused closer. This is an advantage that it doesn't cut into working distance from lens to subject. However to achieve IF, both Canon lenses are a bit larger than other similar focal length macro lenses. Also because of the IF feature, both lenses effectively change focal length as they are focused closer (you really don't notice this in the field when using them). I have heard that the 100/2.8 USM measures a "true" 70mm approx., when focused all the way to 1:1.

Both the 100mm Canon are unusual in that they can be fitted with a tripod mounting ring. I don't know of any third party macro lens in similar focal length offering this. You have to buy a 150mm or 180mm macro lens to get a tripod mounting ring, in most cases. The OEM Canon tripod rings are sold separately and are rather pricey.... aobut $175 for the 100/2.8 USM and about $190 for the ring to fit the 100L IS. But, there are cheaper (about $50) third party clone rings available for both lenses.

Both Canon 100mm macros have USM focus, which speeds up focusing... Macro lenses are inherently slower focusing because they have to move their focus groups a long, long way to go all the way from infinity to 1:1 magnification.

The 100L IS comes with a lens hood. It's sold separately for the 100/2.8 USM and is quite large... the Canon OEM hood is rather pricey, but there are cheaper third party clones available.

You also can consider some excellent third party macro lenses:

Tamron SP 90mm f2.8 USD VC.... this is a new model that's been upgraded with both faster USD focus drive (similar to Canon's USM) and stabilization (Tammy calls it VC).

Tamron SP 90mm f2.8... the older model without USD or VC is still available and sells at a considerably lower price.

Tokina 100/2.8.... doesn't have USM-type AF drive.

Sigma 105/2.8 HSM OS.... Siggy's HSM is similar to USM and their OS is similar to Canon's IS.

Sigma 105/2.8 HSM... the version without OS, now discontinued, but still can sometimes be found and is avail. used.

Zeiss 100/2.0 Makro ZE... manual focus only.... but the one of the few macro lenses with larger than f2.8 aperture.

Another lens that might be worth consideration is the Canon TS-E 90/2.8. This is a tilt shift lens, which allows the photography to adjust the plane of focus, among other things. It is manual focus only and even though it's very close focusing, isn't truly macro... but can be made to focus much closer with macro extension tubes.

In summary, all these macro lenses offer high image quality. That's generally not a concern. The Canon 100mm macro lenses offer most, perhaps all the most desirable features combined: USM focus, IF, tripod mounting ring, focus limiter.... and IS in the 100L IS. Some of the third party macros have some of these features, but none offer all of them.

There are also shorter and longer focal lengths... though I would think the 90 to 105mm range most ideal for portraiture on a FF camera. Sigma offers a 70/2.8 (no HSM or OS) as well as a 150/2.8 (current model has both HSM and OS).

Canon and most of the third party manufacturers also offer 50mm and 180mm macro lenses, but those are likely too short or too long for your purposes.

Canon and Tamron both offer 60mm macro lenses, but those are not FF lenses... they are "crop only".

Canon also offers the MP-E 65mm Macro... but this is a specialized, ultra-high magnification lens, starting at 1:1 and going up to 5:1 mag... and it's manual focus only. Probably not what you are looking for.

Personally I don't like macro lenses for portraiture. They can be too sharp and the largest aperture most macro lenses offer is f2.8. An alternative you might want to consider would be to use macro extension tubes on a non-macro portrait lens, so that it will focus closer and render higher magnification, for those times you want that. For example, you can add extension behind your 85/1.8, or could get a Canon 135/2L and use it with extensions, too.

If considering macro extension tubes, I recommend the Kenko set as the best quality, versatility and value. It includes 12mm, 20mm and 36mm tubes and sells for about $200 US. Canon themselves sells macro extension tubes, too... but only individually in 12mm and 25mm sizes. One of each of the Canon tubes would end up costing more than the Kenko set of three and still wouldn't be as versatile. There are cheaper, more plasticky tube sets, too (Zeikos, Opteka, etc.). Those might work for occasional use, but I think it's worth the extra expense for the better quality Kenko or Canon (Note: I have heard and read some reports of "bricked" 5D's with some of the cheaper tubes, though it seems rare and may not effect other Canon camera models).

The Canon 135/2L is a wonderful portrait lens on FF. Use it wide open for a somewhat dreamy or lyrical look. Or stop it down for superb but selective sharpness. It works fine with extension tubes, but with a longer focal length you need more extension to acheive very high magnfication. Native magnification possible with your 85/1.8 is 0.13X. The 135/2L's is a little greater at 0.19X. Add a 25mm extension tube to your 85mm and you'll get up to 0.44X, while the same tube on the 135mm gives slightly less: 0.41X. (A 12mm extension tube would give lower max magnification.... While the longer 36mm tube in the Kenko set offers higher mag.)

Have fun shopping!

Thank you for this.
Very insightful.
I really like the newer 100mm L IS from what I've heard and seen.
I do want a dedicated macro lens tho, since I will be shooting eyes/flowers/bugs a lot.
I do quite a bit of other texture type of shooting so I feel like it would be best that way.


You have definitely helped make up my mind.

bw!




  
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