Is a printer worth it?

Nightstalker wrote in post #16395963
Hen3Ry,

Are you a hobbyist or a pro?

I ask because I bought my photo printing gear (and thought similar to you) when photography was a hobby but as soon as it became my full time business and time, cost and consistency became more important to me I abandoned the home printing and found a good local lab that I know will produce top quality prints, quickly and at very good rates.

I definitely don't make my living from photography; I'm a musician, and my primary computer (an 8 way Mac Pro), is really a DAW running Cubase and Nuendo, which is Cubase with high-end video post-production. Photoshop CC isn't much of a load for a machine with multiple CPUs, RAID, and PCIe-mounted SSDs. I also take photos, and I'm currently working with 32 bit HDR basically doing the toning with ACR. I print when I have an image I like, and I've sold a some images through local galleries on the coast and here in town. But I definitely don't do large scale production runs. If I need to print larger than my printer supports, I run over to a friend's house; he has multiple Pro level Epson printers, as in the 7000 series. And I pay him for the ink, and supply my own paper.

And let's face it: when you start buying L-Lenses, and expensive camera bodies, all of which cost more than a used R2880 on Craigslist, quibbling about a 100 dollar set of inks seems pretty silly.

cdifoto wrote in post #16396010
I was actually getting really great prints out of my Epson (R2400) but the hassles weren't worth it. It's slow to print and then there's drying time before they can be handled for cutting then cutting itself.

I lost my sanity on a large order of wallets.

Makes sense to me.

When it comes to printing, the distinction between amateur and pro is most important.

Hen3Ry wrote in post #16396016
I definitely don't make my living from photography; I'm a musician, and my primary computer (an 8 way Mac Pro), is really a DAW running Cubase and Nuendo, which is Cubase with high-end video post-production. Photoshop CC isn't much of a load for a machine with multiple CPUs, RAID, and PCIe-mounted SSDs. I also take photos, and I'm currently working with 32 bit HDR basically doing the toning with ACR. I print when I have an image I like, and I've sold a some images through local galleries on the coast and here in town. But I definitely don't do large scale production runs. If I need to print larger than my printer supports, I run over to a friend's house; he has multiple Pro level Epson printers, as in the 7000 series. And I pay him for the ink, and supply my own paper.

And let's face it: when you start buying L-Lenses, and expensive camera bodies, all of which cost more than a used R2880 on Craigslist, quibbling about a 100 dollar set of inks seems pretty silly.

Well, those lenses and bodies get used over and over. The ink gets sucked down on a prime and few prints. Then you have to spend another $100 for another prime and handful of prints.

BigAl007 wrote in post #16390895
That's the big difference between printing in the modern digital age when all the processing has been done to the image before the the printing process even starts. This is the complete opposite to the days of film where almost all of the "clever" processing and even things such as getting the crop correct are down to the person actually printing the image. Lets face it the only difference between using my printer at home or at the lab, as I have all processing/autocorrect options turned off, is that I have to wait for the courier to drop off the prints the next morning.

Alan

The more I thought about it, this is the conclusion that I came to as well. When I printed in my film days, half the battle was the exposure and development of the film. The other half was getting a usable print without wasting too much paper and time. Now, I can sit on an image for a day or two, and come back to it with the progress saved. Dont like the dodge job? Control Z. Having the ability to creatively print in the digital age didnt make much sense to me in the long run. Maybe I will look into it later, but at this point it wasnt worth it

I used to have a printer, and got tired of the expense and the cutting and the time and the inevitable one color running out at the worst possible time. I am lucky in that I have a Costco in the same town as me, so I can just upload the pics to them and pick them up an hour later. Just be sure your monitor is color corrected, or you'll be frustrated with colors.

Hen3Ry wrote in post #16396016
And let's face it: when you start buying L-Lenses, and expensive camera bodies, all of which cost more than a used R2880 on Craigslist, quibbling about a 100 dollar set of inks seems pretty silly.

I can remember the enjoyment of watching a A3 print appear line by line so I do understand the appeal but I can also remember scrapping multiple prints because the print heads got blocked or went out of alignment or some other such problem.

When doing it as a business it all comes down to money and time at the end and for me it is cheaper, easier and less stressful to let someone else do it for me.

My bodies (5DMK2 and MK3) and lenses are an asset that I use in my business, inks and paper are just consumables.

BUT.....

So you are a musician? What genre, are you involved in any bands - c'mon spill some details.

Nightstalker wrote in post #16396456
I can remember the enjoyment of watching a A3 print appear line by line so I do understand the appeal but I can also remember scrapping multiple prints because the print heads got blocked or went out of alignment or some other such problem.

When doing it as a business it all comes down to money and time at the end and for me it is cheaper, easier and less stressful to let someone else do it for me.

My bodies (5DMK2 and MK3) and lenses are an asset that I use in my business, inks and paper are just consumables.

BUT.....

So you are a musician? What genre, are you involved in any bands - c'mon spill some details.

I can certainly understand that. But I'm apparently extraordinarily fortunate in that I must have accidentally bought the only perfect R2400 ever made. I ~never turn it off, and it has never clogged. Not once. In fact, when I say I never turn it off, it has been running continuously now for at least 18 months.

When I was younger (much younger) in the last century, when the world was still flat, I played guitar (and a couple of other instruments here and there) as a session player. I don't play in public very often, but I still write and record music, and have a recording studio in my back yard. It's large enough to have several people recording at a time, depending on what instrument they play. I could get a lot of harmonica players in there, but not many upright bass players. I've been told that my personal musical style is sort of a cross between Ricky Nelson and the Kinks.

Is the printer worth it? For me, yes.

I have an Epson Stylus R1900 and just got the Canon Pro 100 (including 13x19 paper) with the purchase of the 5D3 body. I got the Epson with a large rebate, making it basically free and the Pro 100 was basically free with a rebate, so I said what hell. I like to control my own printing, however, that is limited to 13x44 (Epson) and 13x19 (Canon), anything larger and I'd let someone else do it.

For me, the convenience of being able to print whenever, whatever and however I want is a freedom that I enjoy. Having a printer, I am more apt to print my work, than if I had to send it out or go to the local shop. I just printed some 8x10s and 13x19 for my daughter's cross country team as a gift to them for their participation in the sport and working so hard - not an easy sport I might add. The cost was very minimal. Also, I'm about to revive the printing of family photos for the family photo album (lots of 4x6s). If I had to constantly go back and forth to the store, it probably would not get done. Again, I can print anytime of the day, night or early morning as I see fit. I even do my own matting.

Cost to print:

Paper:

Withing the last week, I purchased tons of paper during Canon's buy 1 get 4 free and buy 1 (4x6) and get 9 free deal. I literally purchased 2K of 4x6s (cost $37) and several hundreds of 5x7, 8x10 and 8.5x11 (cost about $100) and other freebies, plus I got the 13x19 free with the printer, so paper cost is moot at this point. I spent about $140 and got about $1,500 or more worth of paper.

Ink:

I'm going to be refilling my own carts in the future thanks to Precision Colors and the PrinterKnowldge forum. I just order the Pro 100 refill kit ($85) and it contains everything needed and is estimated to provide about 6 refills, so ink costs is moot now. I know many are skeptical of refilling inks, but after researching that forum and talking to those that have been doing it for years, I'm giving it a go. Prior to this, I was getting kicked for the ink.

Calibration equipment:

Well, if you are going to print, in my opinion, you'd better invest in a decent monitor and printer calibration equipment. I use the Color Munki Photo to profile the monitor and printer and all I can say is the images come out very nicely. The initial cost may be high, although the price on this unit has come down about a $100 dollars or more since I purchased mine, but the end results make it worth it.

So, the one major concern that keeps many doing their own printing - cost - is, at the moment, moot for me.

Basically, you have to find a way to leverage your costs and one way is to keep a sharp eye out for deals that can reduce your cost.

Just One Man's Opinion

Al

Methodical wrote in post #16425267
Is the printer worth it? For me, yes.

I have an Epson Stylus R1900 and just got the Canon Pro 100 (including 13x19 paper) with the purchase of the 5D3 body. I got the Epson with a large rebate, making it basically free and the Pro 100 was basically free with a rebate, so I said what hell. I like to control my own printing, however, that is limited to 13x44 (Epson) and 13x19 (Canon), anything larger and I'd let someone else do it.

For me, the convenience of being able to print whenever, whatever and however I want is a freedom that I enjoy. Having a printer, I am more apt to print my work, than if I had to send it out or go to the local shop. I just printed some 8x10s and 13x19 for my daughter's cross country team as a gift to them for their participation in the sport and working so hard - not an easy sport I might add. The cost was very minimal. Also, I'm about to revive the printing of family photos for the family photo album (lots of 4x6s). If I had to constantly go back and forth to the store, it probably would not get done. Again, I can print anytime of the day, night or early morning as I see fit. I even do my own matting.

Cost to print:

Paper:

Withing the last week, I purchased tons of paper during Canon's buy 1 get 4 free and buy 1 (4x6) and get 9 free deal. I literally purchased 2K of 4x6s (cost $37) and several hundreds of 5x7, 8x10 and 8.5x11 (cost about $100) and other freebies, plus I got the 13x19 free with the printer, so paper cost is moot at this point. I spent about $140 and got about $1,500 or more worth of paper.

Ink:

I'm going to be refilling my own carts in the future thanks to Precision Colors and the PrinterKnowldge forum. I just order the Pro 100 refill kit ($85) and it contains everything needed and is estimated to provide about 6 refills, so ink costs is moot now. I know many are skeptical of refilling inks, but after researching that forum and talking to those that have been doing it for years, I'm giving it a go. Prior to this, I was getting kicked for the ink.

Calibration equipment:

Well, if you are going to print, in my opinion, you'd better invest in a decent monitor and printer calibration equipment. I use the Color Munki Photo to profile the monitor and printer and all I can say is the images come out very nicely. The initial cost may be high, although the price on this unit has come down about a $100 dollars or more since I purchased mine, but the end results make it worth it.

So, the one major concern that keeps many doing their own printing - cost - is, at the moment, moot for me.

Basically, you have to find a way to leverage your costs and one way is to keep a sharp eye out for deals that can reduce your cost.

Just One Man's Opinion

Al

Getting a great deal on paper like that definitely skews the cost proposition. The thing is, when you're a business you need ink and paper when you need ink and paper so you can't wait around for deals. You have to assume there will never be a sale on the consumables you use when factoring in your costs of offering the resulting prints.

As a hobby, you can simply wait for the next sale when/if you don't want to pay regular rates. My lab publishes a catalog at the end of every year with prices for the following year and they guarantee those rates for that time. This makes it far easier to plan your packages and fees for them, and you don't have to surprise people with sudden increases or eat unexpected expenses for prints.

cdifoto wrote in post #16425274
Getting a great deal on paper like that definitely skews the cost proposition. The thing is, when you're a business you need ink and paper when you need ink and paper so you can't wait around for deals. You have to assume there will never be a sale on the consumables you use when factoring in your costs of offering the resulting prints.

As a hobby, you can simply wait for the next sale when/if you don't want to pay regular rates. My lab publishes a catalog at the end of every year with prices for the following year and they guarantee those rates for that time. This makes it far easier to plan your packages and fees for them, and you don't have to surprise people with sudden increases or eat unexpected expenses for prints.

True, but when there are deals, as a business, you'd better jump on it and then you will have the item in stock when needed. As far as the lab putting out future price, as a business, I'm willing to bet there's a little note there that say's prices subject to change without notice. They don't control paper and ink, so anything can happen to cause price changes. I personally would not bank on that 100% of the time.

Two examples: Tsunami in Japan, an unforeseen event, that changed Canon's pricing substantially. Second, the time when the price for the hard drive were driven up because of a Tsunami.

Look at Southwest Airlines. Why you think they can offer such low airfare?

Methodical wrote in post #16426484
True, but when there are deals, as a business, you'd better jump on it and then you will have the item in stock when needed. As far as the lab putting out future price, as a business, I'm willing to bet there's a little note there that say's prices subject to change without notice. They don't control paper and ink, so anything can happen to cause price changes. I personally would not bank on that 100% of the time.

Two examples: Tsunami in Japan, an unforeseen event, that changed Canon's pricing substantially. Second, the time when the price for the hard drive were driven up because of a Tsunami.

Look at Southwest Airlines. Why you think they can offer such low airfare?

Nope there's a guarantee for the year. Only the year, but it's better than the alternative. They're a pro lab so they understand how we need to plan. It's not Wal-Mart.

Print with a 3880 using refillable carts and Cone Pigment Inks, buy 8.5X11s in 600 sheet box from Red River Paper. Can print a full bleed 8.5X11 for less than 28 cents. Love printing in my home, sell some, give a lot away, keep changing prints on the walls.

cdifoto wrote in post #16427042
Nope there's a guarantee for the year. Only the year, but it's better than the alternative. They're a pro lab so they understand how we need to plan. It's not Wal-Mart.

So, if their supplier of ink and paper plant goes down for whatever reason and they have to procure elsewhere, but the cost has doubled (just an example), the company won't pass that additional cost to the customer. If that's the case, then you are golden. Did you sign an agreement or is it just a verbal deal?

Methodical wrote in post #16428848
So, if their supplier of ink and paper plant goes down for whatever reason and they have to procure elsewhere, but the cost has doubled (just an example), the company won't pass that additional cost to the customer. If that's the case, then you are golden. Did you sign an agreement or is it just a verbal deal?

You're good for the year. It's their policy. Sure, they could change it on a whim and become liars but they're too smart for that.

I guarantee pricing for a year for the same reason. Even when gas prices go up, changing my packages every time would just be dickish. It's not as if I'm going to lower them every time my costs dip. My lab doesn't lower prices if they find a closeout on paper or a cheaper supplier of office pens...

Neither my lab's nor my pricing are set at such ridiculously tight margins in the first place. We're both smart enough to build in some absorption.