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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 25 Oct 2013 (Friday) 18:27
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Photography frustration

 
Kolor-Pikker
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Oct 26, 2013 13:06 |  #31

edge100 wrote in post #16400974 (external link)
Yep.

That explains why none of the best street photography, documentary and editorial photography or photojournalism of the last 100 years was taken with Leica cameras or lenses.

It's a wonder they don't just shut down the whole operation.

Hey, that's my line ;)


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I acquired an expensive camera so I can hang out in forums, annoy wedding photographers during formals and look down on P&S users... all the while telling people it's the photographer, not the camera.

  
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sjones
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Oct 26, 2013 13:47 |  #32

britt777 wrote in post #16399297 (external link)
So I just picked up my first full frame digital camera (5D Mark III)
I started with the 20D and had several others, but all crop cameras.

My frustration is, I feel like I spend more time reading and watching videos on how to use these cameras than I do getting to take pictures. Is it just me or do others have the same frustration?

It's your choice on how you want to allocate your time; you obviously have the fundamentals down, so the exploration of your camera is up to you.

If you choose to dedicate greater time to watching videos and reading books over using the camera at this stage, then you apparently see a benefit to this, and that's fine---it's your preference.

This said, I'm sure that you were already capable of effectively using the camera the second you picked it up.

However, I would be careful about labeling people "amateur" and "professional" simply based on their replies, particularly since you must realize that the delineation between good and bad does not correlate with the division between pro and amateur.


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20droger
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Oct 26, 2013 15:10 |  #33

OhLook wrote in post #16399887 (external link)
My camera has too many things you can twiddle with, including functions I'll never use, and the manual isn't on paper, it's a PDF, which I can't take with me. I get on better by concentrating on learning one function at a time and practicing that for a while. Just my learning style. Yours may vary.

So print out a copy if you want to take it with you. Or you can burn it to a flash drive or memory card for use with a tablet.




  
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20droger
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Oct 26, 2013 15:10 |  #34

drewl wrote in post #16399900 (external link)
cameras have manuals?

Yep! And you should RTFM!




  
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20droger
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Oct 26, 2013 15:18 |  #35

Tessa wrote in post #16400028 (external link)
Old and new cameras are like old and new cars. Sounds like a silly comparison, but hear me out...

With older cars it was fairly simple: you got in; there was a steering wheel, gear lever, pedals, a few mechanical adjustments to the seat, some buttons for heat/ventilation, maybe a radio and that was about it.

With new high end cars the drivers seat alone has a silly amount of options: heating, ventilation, perhaps massage; you can electrically adjust it in dozens of different ways and commit those settings to memory; etc. And then there are all the other things: screens, buttons, Bluetooth, cameras, parking sensors, self-tinting mirrors, adjustable suspension, intelligent high beams, and so on and on and on...

You can get in the new car and drive without knowing most of those things, but you can also take the time to learn everything you can before speeding off. Knowing at least some of the details makes the driving experience much more enjoyable, but not knowing wouldn't stop you from driving. It's all about how much you want to know.

Okay, feel free to laugh at the silly lady :lol:

Listen to the Lada Lady! She knows her cars! (And her cameras!)




  
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TooManyShots
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Oct 26, 2013 15:19 |  #36
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edge100 wrote in post #16400974 (external link)
Yep.

That explains why none of the best street photography, documentary and editorial photography or photojournalism of the last 100 years was taken with Leica cameras or lenses.

It's a wonder they don't just shut down the whole operation.


Oh, actaully, Leica needs to venture into the digital market, the low end line, in order to remain profitable. You would find some of their brand lenses in the Panasonic line.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Oct 26, 2013 15:23 |  #37

sjones wrote in post #16401087 (external link)
However, I would be careful about labeling people "amateur" and "professional" simply based on their replies, particularly since you must realize that the delineation between good and bad does not correlate with the division between pro and amateur.

Steve, I actually took it the other way - when the OP said something about the difference between amateurs and professionals, I thought she meant that she, as an amateur, was more likely to study manuals and the like, whereas a professional would merely adjust his/her "go-to" settings and start shooting. I know a good number of full-time pros, and I don't know any of them to sweat the manual/instruction/gea​r experimentation very much. They usually just shoot because they have to, then they learn the special features of the new gear "as needed".

If the OP meant it the way you thought she meant it, then perhaps she isn't familiar with many professional photographers who have businesses to run and contracts to fulfill.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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airfrogusmc
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Oct 26, 2013 15:24 |  #38

edge100 wrote in post #16400974 (external link)
Yep.

That explains why none of the best street photography, documentary and editorial photography or photojournalism of the last 100 years was taken with Leica cameras or lenses.

It's a wonder they don't just shut down the whole operation.

:lol::lol:

I can tell you my menu on my MM is a breeze to use, unlike the layers and layers in most DSLRs and the camera functions a lot like any Leica M. Shutter speed dial on the top, aperture ring on the lens oh and really good DoF scales.




  
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sjones
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Oct 26, 2013 15:54 |  #39

Tom Reichner wrote in post #16401254 (external link)
Steve, I actually took it the other way - when the OP said something about the difference between amateurs and professionals, I thought she meant that she, as an amateur, was more likely to study manuals and the like, whereas a professional would merely adjust his/her "go-to" settings and start shooting. I know a good number of full-time pros, and I don't know any of them to sweat the manual/instruction/gea​r experimentation very much. They usually just shoot because they have to, then they learn the special features of the new gear "as needed".

If the OP meant it the way you thought she meant it, then perhaps she isn't familiar with many professional photographers who have businesses to run and contracts to fulfill.

You're probably right; good call, and my apologies to the OP if I read that wrong.


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It's the Photographer (external link) | God Loves Photoshop (external link)

  
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OhLook
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Oct 26, 2013 16:15 |  #40

20droger wrote in post #16401225 (external link)
So print out a copy if you want to take it with you. Or you can burn it to a flash drive or memory card for use with a tablet.

Carry 300+ pages? No, thanks. I neglected to mention that I'm usually walking. A tablet is also a lot to carry. Besides, I'd have to buy one first.


PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa, more so (2 wds.), shoo-in | IMAGE EDITING OK

  
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Geonerd
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Oct 26, 2013 16:16 |  #41

britt777 wrote in post #16399617 (external link)
Lol...people crack me up....guess that's the difference between amateur and professional. I like to know what every single setting on my camera is for and can do. Whether it's a $50 camera or $50,000 camera. Nothing wrong with that. Should have known better than to post.

Why the 'amateur' snipe?

Dude's got a point. Are you a button pushing chimp, happily enthralled with the useless 'features' buried in the endless menus, or a photographer?

Find interesting subject.
Compose something interesting.
Set focus and resolve DOF concerns.
Set exposure.
Push the button.


"Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk!" - E. Weston

  
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sandpiper
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Oct 26, 2013 16:38 |  #42

britt777 wrote in post #16399617 (external link)
Lol...people crack me up....guess that's the difference between amateur and professional. I like to know what every single setting on my camera is for and can do. Whether it's a $50 camera or $50,000 camera. Nothing wrong with that. Should have known better than to post.

I believe the point was that you don't need to know everything straight away, you can go out and shoot as soon as you get the camera and then learn the extra bells and whistles as you go.

I also started out with a 20D, and have added a 40D and 5Dc over the years. I got the 5D III and yeah, it has a lot more features to learn, but all the basics are the same. I took it straight out and used it at a motorbike racing event with no problems at all, and no watching videos or reading the manual first either. Got great results too.

I quickly flicked through the various menus and custom functions,and set things how I like them (the descriptions are mostly in there, as to what they do, or simply apply common sense as to whether a feature should be "on" or "off") set it to Av mode, AI servo, single point AF with the selection by joystick, so I could flick quickly and easily through them, the choice of "case" for the AF was also simple, based on the descriptions in the camera menu. Exposure metering is essentially the same as my older cameras, as are most functions that I used in the first few days (EC, AEB, MLU etc).

I had absolutely no problems using it at all. If I needed a feature I had the manual with me, and could quickly glance at it and see how to turn it on (for example, I couldn't find how to turn live view on - not having had a DSLR with video before, I assumed the video button was just for video).

I did watch a short video on the AF system and all its features fairly early on, but I am still using it in single point most of the time, because I like to work that way and it gives me great results.

Nobody is saying that you shouldn't learn what everything does, if that is what you want to do, but for me there are a number of features I don't feel any need to know about (such as in camera HDR for example). But you are complaining about spending too much time reading manuals and watching videos and not getting much shooting done. People are just making a point that the camera works perfectly well with your current understanding of using your previous cameras, then learn as you shoot.

It's like buying a new car. You may spend a few minutes familiarising yourself with where the various main levers are (are the turn indicators on the left stalk and the wipers on the right, or vice versa etc.) but essentially you can jump in any car and drive it, safely, from A to B. All the essential functions for driving a car are easily discovered, pedals are in the same place, gearshifts may have a slightly different H pattern, but that doesn't stop you using them straight away, etc.

Sure, you may need to dig out the manual to find a particular function on the A/C or stereo, but you can drive it straight away and figure out the little things as you go. The same goes with cameras, the essentials are easy to find and use, so get out and use it and just learn the rest a bit at a time.




  
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Owain ­ Shaw
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Oct 26, 2013 16:50 |  #43

sandpiper wrote in post #16401375 (external link)
I believe the point was that you don't need to know everything straight away, you can go out and shoot as soon as you get the camera and then learn the extra bells and whistles as you go.

I also started out with a 20D, and have added a 40D and 5Dc over the years. I got the 5D III and yeah, it has a lot more features to learn, but all the basics are the same. I took it straight out and used it at a motorbike racing event with no problems at all, and no watching videos or reading the manual first either. Got great results too.

I quickly flicked through the various menus and custom functions,and set things how I like them (the descriptions are mostly in there, as to what they do, or simply apply common sense as to whether a feature should be "on" or "off") set it to Av mode, AI servo, single point AF with the selection by joystick, so I could flick quickly and easily through them, the choice of "case" for the AF was also simple, based on the descriptions in the camera menu. Exposure metering is essentially the same as my older cameras, as are most functions that I used in the first few days (EC, AEB, MLU etc).

I had absolutely no problems using it at all. If I needed a feature I had the manual with me, and could quickly glance at it and see how to turn it on (for example, I couldn't find how to turn live view on - not having had a DSLR with video before, I assumed the video button was just for video).

I did watch a short video on the AF system and all its features fairly early on, but I am still using it in single point most of the time, because I like to work that way and it gives me great results.

Nobody is saying that you shouldn't learn what everything does, if that is what you want to do, but for me there are a number of features I don't feel any need to know about (such as in camera HDR for example). But you are complaining about spending too much time reading manuals and watching videos and not getting much shooting done. People are just making a point that the camera works perfectly well with your current understanding of using your previous cameras, then learn as you shoot.

It's like buying a new car. You may spend a few minutes familiarising yourself with where the various main levers are (are the turn indicators on the left stalk and the wipers on the right, or vice versa etc.) but essentially you can jump in any car and drive it, safely, from A to B. All the essential functions for driving a car are easily discovered, pedals are in the same place, gearshifts may have a slightly different H pattern, but that doesn't stop you using them straight away, etc.

Sure, you may need to dig out the manual to find a particular function on the A/C or stereo, but you can drive it straight away and figure out the little things as you go. The same goes with cameras, the essentials are easy to find and use, so get out and use it and just learn the rest a bit at a time.

Agree with this and many other posts. The fundamentals of shooting should be familiar by now, if you want to get out shooting - you can. If you encounter a problem while you're out there, refer to the manual or the internet for help with it, but until then, the camera is for taking photos.

I'm fairly certain I left the manual for my camera in Britain when I emigrated 18 months ago. I certainly haven't missed it.


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tonylong
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Oct 26, 2013 17:56 |  #44

One thing that I'll add as a bit of a "balance" to what I and others have said.

The recent models of 1Dx bodies as well as the 5D3 show some real developments in the AF capabilities and how to use them "optimally". The old bodies were pretty much best to just leave in Center Point AF, or, for a stationary subject carefully pick and outer point for your composition, just knowing that the outer points are "not so good". The new developments do bear some studying and testing!


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sonofjesse
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Oct 26, 2013 19:14 |  #45

So what did your 20D or other crop camera NOT do that you was needing? I have fallen for the trap myself of lets upgrade to camera X and then my next 100 frames will just be magical and it just don' work that way (too bad for me lol). Coming from a Canon crop to a FF sensor the menus are very close right so if you knew your 20D inside and out the 5D Mark III will feel somewhat the same. Spend the next 2 weeks just shooting and learning the differences. Once you have that done take a look at the pictures you have taken and are they better than before or not? If not, what is wrong with the picture. Also make a list of things you want out of your pictures. Did you mis focus, did you have it on the wrong focus mode etc.

The 5D Mark III has great AF and that will increase your keeper rate no doubt if you were struggling with AF issues previously.

Happy shooting and good luck!!


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