Arca-Swiss now "permanently" fixing their clamp to the Z1

Last July there was a post on the FM forum that mentioned that this was happening, so when I was at the PhotoPlus Expo in NYC over the weekend I verified it at the Arca-Swiss booth and it's true.

When I asked were they using blue or red Loctite the rep said it was "way beyond" red and he described it as black, adding that I shouldn't attempt to remove the clamp myself. He suggested that if the A-S clamp "absolutely and positively" had to be removed from the ballhead then send it to Precision Camera Works, the A-S service company in the US.

He told me that the company was fed up dealing with botched removals/installs being returned for warranty repair and I don't blame them for that, but I think that using a very powerful threadlocker isn't a good solution. Markins sell some of their models without a clamp as does Acratech, and there's no reason that A-S can't do the same thing.

I agree. And you think they might ask themselves, "Why do so many people want to remove our clamp?" If they supplied a clamp like the customer wanted, they wouldn't have to weld it on there.

And here I was just about to finally pull the trigger on the Z1... this does make me rethink my options.

I wonder if there is a place to order it without the threadlocker.

What about the model that does not come with a quick release? Is that also locked down?

I recently buy a Z1 (B&H) without clamp and put a Wimberley c12...

http://www.tripodhead.​com/c12-arcaswiss-Z1.cfm

sawsedge wrote in post #16411182
What about the model that does not come with a quick release? Is that also locked down?

The rep at PhotoPlus wasn't explicit that all connectors were threadlocked, to be honest I think he probably wanted to to talk to people who were more interested in buying. I've sent an email to Arca-Swiss to ask this very question but I picked out the model with the round base as the possible outlier.

I received a Z1 two days ago from B&H, and the clamp was easy to remove. Maybe I'm lucky?

I think you are. I just heard back from A-S:

"Yes, we do permanently attach. The reason is many people installed both our own new QR's and third party QR's using the wrong screw which damaged the head in many cases.
They then claimed warranty repair which is not really ethical as this was not a manufacturing flaw.
So we have decided last year to make them basically not user removable. Precision Camera Works can, for a fee, remove the QR.
They will also install correctly a replacement QR thus maintaining the warranty."

So it looks like everything is being threadlocked, and the issue is people are are trying to install a 3rd party clamp with a screw that isn't a metric 6 (M6) and damaging the ball stem in the process.

Arca-Swiss would be well within their rights to tell people they won't do warranty repairs to fix stupid mistakes like that, but I guess they are worried people like that will lie on forums and damage their reputation.

I have never in my life tried to force a thread, and I find such issues obvious, so I'm perplexed that anyone would make that mistake. It's easy to feel when you start to cross-thread or have the wrong size/pitch, and correct the mistake before you do damage.

OTOH, one would think, like Bearmann says, that A-S would recognize that there are many people out there (like me) who don't want their clamps, and having to pay a fee makes the Z1 a lot less attractive.

I remove easy ( two weeks ago) with this combo...

http://www.lowes.com …page%3D1&facetI​nfo=Kobalt

http://www.lowes.com …26page%3D1&face​tInfo=11mm

sawsedge wrote in post #16412904
Arca-Swiss would be well within their rights to tell people they won't do warranty repairs to fix stupid mistakes like that, but I guess they are worried people like that will lie on forums and damage their reputation.

I have never in my life tried to force a thread, and I find such issues obvious, so I'm perplexed that anyone would make that mistake. It's easy to feel when you start to cross-thread or have the wrong size/pitch, and correct the mistake before you do damage.

OTOH, one would think, like Bearmann says, that A-S would recognize that there are many people out there (like me) who don't want their clamps, and having to pay a fee makes the Z1 a lot less attractive.

I agree, but some people are less mechanically inclined than others. It really is going too far to claim warranty for self-inflicted damage though. While I don't blame Arca-Swiss for being upset about this, I think their solution ruins the choice of many potential buyers. It's a wonderful ballhead and they're shooting themselves in the foot.

I wrote back to them last night and suggested they consider selling the Z1 without a clamp, pointing out that companies like Acratech, Markins and RRS sell some of their heads without clamps so why not Arca-Swiss? They would probably sell a lot more ballheads if they went that route.

It could be a pride issue; Arca-Swiss selling a ballhead without a clamp that bears the name of the connection system we all use. I hope that isn't the case though.

Saikou wrote in post #16413254
I remove easy with this combo...

http://www.lowes.com …page%3D1&facetI​nfo=Kobalt

http://www.lowes.com …26page%3D1&face​tInfo=11mm

I did the same thing. It's not the removal that's really the issue, it's people forcing an incorrect screw into the ball stem with a driver, damaging it, then claiming for warranty repair. Enough people have done this that Arca-Swiss just don't want to bear the overhead of dealing with it any more.

sawsedge wrote in post #16412904
I have never in my life tried to force a thread, and I find such issues obvious, so I'm perplexed that anyone would make that mistake. It's easy to feel when you start to cross-thread or have the wrong size/pitch, and correct the mistake before you do damage.

For those of us who have (or had in my own case!) jobs that involve practical, hands on work that's true. However there are many who work in offices and have no interest in practical hobbies who would not realise that and possibly don't even understand the concept of "cross-threaded"!

Well, they could just include the correct M6 screw with the head, and that would easily solve the problem wouldn't it?

Jptenberg wrote in post #16414418
Well, they could just include the correct M6 screw with the head, and that would easily solve the problem wouldn't it?

Nah, way too easy.

Jptenberg wrote in post #16414418
Well, they could just include the correct M6 screw with the head, and that would easily solve the problem wouldn't it?

Well that's what I thought too but apparently it doesn't. I got a reply from A-S and they're not currently contemplating selling the ballhead with just an M6 screw and no clamp. Here's the reply verbatim:

"Not at this time. Required Screw lengths to install the QR's would vary for each of these manufacturers QRs.
So wrong screw again would void warranty...
Also these manufacturers all vary the width of their plates, often making their plates up to 2mm wider, thus creating another issue for customers with mixed plates which may or may not actually allow the QR to lock onto.
The best all around QR is still our knob clamp. This QR Clamp allows adjustment to all available plates from all these manufacturers."

Now my reading of this is that the length of the screws being used on 3rd party clamps is the issue, so maybe there's something inside the ball that's being damaged by screws that are too long.

This is unfortunate, and I think their thinking is going to damage their sales. The best advice I can offer is that if you're lucky enough to get a Z1 with a removable base or clamp get a countersunk M6 screw that protrudes <=14mm/0.55" from the base of the clamp and then you should be OK. This is based on measuring my round base and Arca-Swiss stud, see pic below.