How good is non crosstype point? Share your thought :)

I have used all the points on both a T3i and a 60d. They work well under most situations. I prefer doing this over recon losing if possible. I also watched this tutorial given by a Canon worker.
I think it's about 1.25 hours, but is interesting to see how the af system works.
http://youtu.be/iAx86n​blZ2g

As other's said, a single line AF point works just as good as a cross point so long as the line is laying perpendicular to a high contrast subject that it can see well.

And if you can memorize which way all of the single points lie, and think of that while composing then presumably you can make them work just fine.

But cross points are obviously better since they work when the contrast is one way or the other, and they don't require me to remember which way each point lies.

All of this stuff is most noticeable in low light when the camera is struggling to see enough contrast to focus on at all. Then having the contrast lie near parallel to a single line AF point will lead to hunting or a miss.

kin2son wrote in post #16422846
Hey Talley not sure if you've been following this other thread where Gabe show some animals and bifs tracking using 6D's outer point.

https://photography-on-the.net …?p=16421066&pos​tcount=378
https://photography-on-the.net …?p=16421072&pos​tcount=379

ISO 400, 1/1250 @ 6.3 is alot of light.

The outer points won't reliably track my kids indoors at 1/320-640, 2.8, ISO 3200-6400. However I don't expect them to either. My 7D was able to do this "OK" about 70% keepers.

You should watch this, it helped me understand how it works a lot.
http://youtu.be/iAx86n​blZ2g

The cameras I have all show in the viewfinder if the point is cross-type or not. Cross type points are represented by a square, linear by a rectangle. Thus it's easy to see which is which, and also easy to see by the orientation of the rectangle if the linear point is vertical or horizontal.
The only difference is the 1DX and similar, where all points are represented by squares, but you can have the linear ones flash or being non-selectable.

Talley wrote in post #16422900
ISO 400, 1/1250 @ 6.3 is alot of light.

The outer points won't reliably track my kids indoors at 1/320-640, 2.8, ISO 3200-6400. However I don't expect them to either. My 7D was able to do this "OK" about 70% keepers.

So in your experience would you say a non crosstype point focuses just as fast, reliable and accurately as a crosstype under good light?

Also does aperture affects the success rate?

Talley wrote in post #16422900
ISO 400, 1/1250 @ 6.3 is alot of light.

The outer points won't reliably track my kids indoors at 1/320-640, 2.8, ISO 3200-6400. However I don't expect them to either. My 7D was able to do this "OK" about 70% keepers.

Hi Talley, you should read that whole thread to understand the background. I know it's long but you'll understand where all this comes from. The claim that made me post a bunch of sample photos using AI Servo with an off center point of the 6D was that the 6D is a "center point only, focus and recompose camera" , even in one-shot mode.

By the way, ISO 400, 1/1250 at 6.3 is indeed enough light, but did you see the other info too? Third party lens, 2x TC, 600mm, busy background, 8lbs rig, 6D top center point AI Servo.
Now a lot of people know me here for my bird photos and that I take them with my 7D and 70D. This BIF shot with my 6D was just an experiment. I'd never use my 6D for any of these shots. But I did that just to prove a point in the other thread, which it did.

I challenge anybody to duplicate that, even if we all know it's a stupid idea (6D for BIF? Using off-center point instead of center?? Insane )

gabebalazs wrote in post #16422982
By the way, ISO 400, 1/1250 at 6.3 is indeed enough light, but did you see the other info too? Third party lens, 2x TC, 600mm, busy background, 8lbs rig, 6D top center point AI Servo.
Now a lot of people know me here for my bird photos and that I take them with my 7D and 70D. This BIF was shot with my 6D was just an experiment. I'd never use my 6D for any of these shots. But I did that just to prove a point in the other thread, which it did.

Hey Gabe there's no doubt that you did an excellent job with those shots which prompted me to revisit those non crosstype on mine and starting this thread.

I wish I have more birds for me to test out my 70-200II + 2xIII combo, but all I can find is winter swallow and they are a b!tch to track (trust me I tried)

It's not like non-cross AF points are completely unusable -- I used the all the time, back with my older cameras, my 5D2s and now my 6D.

That said, I have a lot more confidence in using only cross-points on the 5D3 in grouped mode.

In testing my 6D, I've hit a few situations where the AF point just wouldn't grab -- mainly a vertical painted corner in my house (half in off white, half in almost-black, so it was like a black and white vertical split). An off-center point on the 6D just wouldn't grab it, center point locked instantly.

This type of situation is fairly rare though, at least for me - I have no qualms using the outer points on the 6D, but the crappy directional pad usually makes me just use center point and recompose really quick.

kin2son wrote in post #16423018
Hey Gabe there's no doubt that you did an excellent job with those shots which prompted me to revisit those non crosstype on mine and starting this thread.

I wish I have more birds for me to test out my 70-200II + 2xIII combo, but all I can find is winter swallow and they are a b!tch to track (trust me I tried)

Oh, I know what you're talking about.
Swallows are virtually mission impossible, for me at least. My favorites are large heron/egret type birds and raptors, so swallows don't interest me that much anyway.
For me the biggest problem with tracking small birds (with my 7D/70D) is that if I use a smaller lens that is light enough to swing around fast, obviously I don't have enough reach to capture the bird other than a small dot. But when I use my large lens, it's too large for me to move it fast. Catch 22

gabebalazs wrote in post #16422982
Hi Talley, you should read that whole thread to understand the background. I know it's long but you'll understand where all this comes from. The claim that made me post a bunch of sample photos using AI Servo with an off center point of the 6D was that the 6D is a "center point only, focus and recompose camera" , even in one-shot mode.

By the way, ISO 400, 1/1250 at 6.3 is indeed enough light, but did you see the other info too? Third party lens, 2x TC, 600mm, busy background, 8lbs rig, 6D top center point AI Servo.
Now a lot of people know me here for my bird photos and that I take them with my 7D and 70D. This BIF shot with my 6D was just an experiment. I'd never use my 6D for any of these shots. But I did that just to prove a point in the other thread, which it did.

I challenge anybody to duplicate that, even if we all know it's a stupid idea (6D for BIF? Using off-center point instead of center?? Insane )

No I get it and a I agree.

kin2son wrote in post #16422961
So in your experience would you say a non crosstype point focuses just as fast, reliable and accurately as a crosstype under good light?

Also does aperture affects the success rate?

In good light they are probably 90% of the center point. Just as fast, accurate. The reliable depends on what your aiming at. you HAVE to be aware of the line direction and make sure you give it contrasting lines to focus on. Obviously it wouldn't focus on the blue sky, no point will.

F1.4 I use center point only if that makes a difference. In good light maybe a 70% success at that thin of DOF. I'm use to using center point but I also know the 5D3 is my second next purchase. First purchase is 14mm 2.8 rokinon well and I have more studio stuff to buy first and a new monitor and a color munki and and and :P

I've found the outer points in both the 5D and 5D II fairly useless even in good light; they are VERY orientation dependant. And they're not very 'outer'

I kept this little printed aide memoire in my camera bag for the first six months of my 5D until it was imprinted - but found it of little use in the heat of the moment.

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/91007789@N05/8​426162425/

If you saw this before I edited out everything, apologies. I reported really bad results with a 5D/28-75 and 5D/Σ70-200 OS. I have determined that my original target did not have enough contrast. How? I reshot it using center point with expansion points. That sucked, too. I got much better results with the center point on a higher-contrast target. I will reshoot the Sigma with a better target, later. No sense in re-shooting the Tamron. The 5D/28-75 combination fails regularly with outer points in good light in One-Shot.

xhack: thanks for posting the diagram, i looked all over for that

YashicaFX2 wrote in post #16423413
First outing: EOS 5D in AI-Servo with Tamron 28-75. Good overcast outdoor light. Test was panning, moderately quickly, say a fast-walking dog, from 60' to 6'.
Top-most point: 2 keepers out 16 shots.
Right-most point: 3 keeps out of 21 shots.

I expected as much for this combination. It has failed to focus in bright sunshine with outer points. No sense posting shots to prove this.

BRB with Σ70-200 results.

Same setup with Sigma 70-200 2.8 on 5D. Similar results. Better, but still sucky. Maybe 1/3 keepers. One more try with center point, just to see what happens.

Wow, that really sucks. Now I'd really like to know what improvements Canon has implemented on the 6D. Like my photos show in that other thread, maybe I'm lucky or Canon did actually improve the outer points on the 6D (of course the real improvement would have been all cross-type but even the current outer AF points seem to be better than 5DI and 5DII).