Sony a7(R): Best thing that happened to Canon users this year.

This is a cross-post from another thread, but I'd love to hear more opions from anyone not following that thread

So I have to admit that I've been giving an A7 cameras more and more thought. I still have my gripes with the lack of good affordable native lenses and some of Sony's wonky software decisions (like auto-ISO limitations), but as I mainly use legacy glass anyway, it's still compelling me.

I love my 6D, but I simply don't use it now that I have my Fuji entirely because of the size. I can bring my X-E1 and 3-4 lenses and it'll still weigh less than my 6D and one or two lenses and it's a whole lot less cumbersome and eye-catching for candid work (which is what I mostly enjoy).

My only fears for letting go of the 6D are that I'll miss the OVF for low light shooting, the awesome high ISO capability and it's ergonomics and lens potential (though I can still use those lenses with the Sony, the AF will be pretty much worthless).

I started by eyeing the A7, but then it seemed most reviews said that the A7r was better in pretty much every single way... then I mad the mistake of looking at the "s" and apparently it goes even further by making the EVF far more useful in low light (one of my biggest concerns) and by adding a silent shutter (my biggest concern, to me the A7r's shutter sounds absurdly loud in videos, but I've yet to hear it in person).

So I was hoping some owners could chime in. Is the A7r useful at ISO6400+? I have numerous shots at ISO12800 and up on my 6D which I'd have no issues printing, I'm afraid of losing that capability (I'm sure the A7s would give me the same ability). Is the shutter as loud as it seems? Will everyone in the room turn their head when it goes off? And is the A7s's normal shutter any quieter?

I know I had other concerns and questions... but that's all that's coming to mind right now. The reason all this started cropping up is that I have no quarrels buying used gear and right now the 6D and A7r are nearly the same price in the used market, so I could make almost a direct trade... the A7s on the other hand would cost me a good chunk of change so I want to be sure before I go any further... also, if any A7 users live in the DC area I'd love to meet up so I can see one and maybe shoot with it a bit in person!

Sounds like weight is almost as important to you as it is to me
An A7r + A7s is just 2 ounces less than the 6D.
I wonder why you went Fuji when you could have got A6000, just curious, if you knew you might be headed to the A7 series then it would have been nice lens wise.
A7r shutter is LOUD to me.
If you want to print BIG pictures I don't think you'd like the A7s.If you want a FREAK light machine there is nothing like the A7s, I bought it for Milky Way shots but really it is directed at the video crowd.
The A7r at ISO 6400, in my view this is where the noise begins, def. get more opinions on that.
The a7r cannot compete with the 6D in ISO performance.
For me the A7r is a landscape machine.
The A7s is a (again for me) a night photographers dream machine.
With my 6D I've shot polar bears, Milky Way, BIFs, and focus stacked macro via Magic Lantern.
Probably not helping but it was my thoughts on the matter at 0417 in the early morn.

xpfloyd wrote in post #17254256
Dorian, one thing I would add is if you pixel peep, get the sony. That's what killed it for me with the fuji

I second this. I don't consider myself to be a heavy pixel peeper but I do check my images at 50% as that seems to translate pretty well to the sizes I usually print. My advice is to view some full size files if possible from the Fuji of the subject matter that you like to shoot most before jumping in.

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17255236
This is a cross-post from another thread, but I'd love to hear more opions from anyone not following that thread

So I have to admit that I've been giving an A7 cameras more and more thought. I still have my gripes with the lack of good affordable native lenses and some of Sony's wonky software decisions (like auto-ISO limitations), but as I mainly use legacy glass anyway, it's still compelling me.

I love my 6D, but I simply don't use it now that I have my Fuji entirely because of the size. I can bring my X-E1 and 3-4 lenses and it'll still weigh less than my 6D and one or two lenses and it's a whole lot less cumbersome and eye-catching for candid work (which is what I mostly enjoy).

My only fears for letting go of the 6D are that I'll miss the OVF for low light shooting, the awesome high ISO capability and it's ergonomics and lens potential (though I can still use those lenses with the Sony, the AF will be pretty much worthless).

I started by eyeing the A7, but then it seemed most reviews said that the A7r was better in pretty much every single way... then I mad the mistake of looking at the "s" and apparently it goes even further by making the EVF far more useful in low light (one of my biggest concerns) and by adding a silent shutter (my biggest concern, to me the A7r's shutter sounds absurdly loud in videos, but I've yet to hear it in person).

So I was hoping some owners could chime in. Is the A7r useful at ISO6400+? I have numerous shots at ISO12800 and up on my 6D which I'd have no issues printing, I'm afraid of losing that capability (I'm sure the A7s would give me the same ability). Is the shutter as loud as it seems? Will everyone in the room turn their head when it goes off? And is the A7s's normal shutter any quieter?

I know I had other concerns and questions... but that's all that's coming to mind right now. The reason all this started cropping up is that I have no quarrels buying used gear and right now the 6D and A7r are nearly the same price in the used market, so I could make almost a direct trade... the A7s on the other hand would cost me a good chunk of change so I want to be sure before I go any further... also, if any A7 users live in the DC area I'd love to meet up so I can see one and maybe shoot with it a bit in person!

if you're not into landscapes, stick the A7s/A7. The shutter lag of the A7r is it's biggest handicap IMO, for candids or anything with people. It's a real shame, that this handicap exist. 0.060 vs 0.160 is pretty damn significant lag.

Auto iso implementation. Not an issue with manual adapted lenses, you can shoot shutter priority, and compensation at the top dial.

with native lenses, you can shoot manual with auto iso and compensation.... in canonland, only a 1Dx offers.

For adapted lenses, sony beats fuji hands down. no need for speedboosters, only dummy adapters, and basically any lens would work.

High ISO, I would put my personal comfort level of the 6D to 25600 and A7r to 12800, even though I would rank the 6D 1/2 stop better in high ISO. Difference exists, but not too bad. A7s looks like a full stop better than the 6D, but that's only from the samples I've seen. The A7r is pretty good at high ISO even if it's a landscape machine. Noticeably better than my older 5D2, maybe even a little better than the 5D3.

ergonomics, the camera is a bit small. You can use a cheapo L bracket to beef it up, or a half case.

Shutter of the A7r is annoyingly loud. Sounds like older DSLR's, kind like the old 5Dc. Sony definitely does things differently, but dedicated dials for shutter/iso/aperture, make the system golden. It's just something I've always wanted from canon, but never got. Same thing with Autoiso in manual mode, although only really useful with native lenses.

I have a LARGE set of old manual adapted lenses, and the sony has been an absolute joy for that. adapters about 11 bux for Fotga and get the job done. REALLY love the older 135/2, 85/1.2, 50/1.2. Those three cost me as much as my EF 50L and 135L, but I really have no regrets making the switch to the MF adapted versions. I still have a 70-200ii for really fast action, but honestly hardly ever used (as expected). Seems kinda frivolous swapping for full manual lenses that were pretty expensive, but they were significantly smaller. The FDn 50 1.2 is toylike in size. It's tiny compared to the EF 50 1.2 and you'de be hard pressed to tell the IQ difference, and quite frankly even the FDn 50 1.4 was pretty good (still have that lens as well). 28 2.8 is with me all the time, weighs about as much as the 40 pancake, gives me wide angle in a pinch. At the end of the day, I'm extremely happy with my set of manual lenses. I honestly could not even think about shooting these lenses a year ago.... now I've sold a few of my EF lenses in favor.

if those 1.2 glass are still too heavy, you can get smaller counterparts for cheap. 50mm F1.4 I got was $90 and very very good (90% the level of the 1.2), 135F2.8 only $80, 28mm, $30? The slower versions are very small and light.

tonyniev wrote in post #17245764
A7R with Canon FD 35-105 mm ($119.95 from B&H)
35 mm

105 mm

Darn good, I say! If you'd said it was some 1000 buck Zeiss/Contax, I'd be more likley believe it!!

shikhan wrote in post #17244622
My first time shooting with the A7r and the Canon nFD 24mm and nFD 50mm

Hello Shikhan!Where would the top shot be from? Looks like eastern Ladakh, if my memory of that place serves me well...

What FD adapter do you use? Are you satisfied with it or in hindsight you feel some other brand adapter will work better?

Also how efficient or convenient is use of the manual focus assisst system?

Thanks so much!

Sony A7 + Canon 24L II with Metabones 3 adaptor - Last photo with Canon FD 24mm f/2.8

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/pXjB​MH

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/pXjB​dg

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/pXjA​ZF

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/pXCo​m9

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/pF9T​ro

khukri wrote in post #17255656
Darn good, I say! If you'd said it was some 1000 buck Zeiss/Contax, I'd be more likley believe it!!

yes I am happy with my used Canon FD lenses, I am reposting here using Flickr so you can see the better image, of a shot from a Canon FD 135 mm F3.5 I picked up for $49.50

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/pFi9​29

MedicineMan4040 wrote in post #17255286
Sounds like weight is almost as important to you as it is to me

It hasn't always been, but now that I know the joys of a lighter system, it's hard to go back to the DSLR

An A7r + A7s is just 2 ounces less than the 6D.
I wonder why you went Fuji when you could have got A6000, just curious, if you knew you might be headed to the A7 series then it would have been nice lens wise.

The A6000 wasn't out when I bought my X-E1, and the NEX cameras I tested I was unimpressed with, something about their build and the look of the LCD's just looked off to me... not really sure how to explain it. I also didn't really think I'd be getting an A7 since at the time I was very happy with my 6D (still am), but after using the X-E1 a lot I've come to love a smaller kit.

A7r shutter is LOUD to me.

That's unfortunate, this is definitely one of my biggest gripes...

If you want to print BIG pictures I don't think you'd like the A7s.If you want a FREAK light machine there is nothing like the A7s, I bought it for Milky Way shots but really it is directed at the video crowd.

I've heard that the A7s is mostly directed toward video guys before, but nobody has really said why? Aren't the controls identical to the other A7's? Is the sensor just not good for stills? Resolution has never been an issue for me, even my 8mp 20D seemed plenty for my needs, I rarely crop in post and I have a 20x30 at ISO800 from my 20D hanging in my living room, looks great to me.

The A7r at ISO 6400, in my view this is where the noise begins, def. get more opinions on that.
The a7r cannot compete with the 6D in ISO performance.
For me the A7r is a landscape machine.
The A7s is a (again for me) a night photographers dream machine.
With my 6D I've shot polar bears, Milky Way, BIFs, and focus stacked macro via Magic Lantern.
Probably not helping but it was my thoughts on the matter at 0417 in the early morn.

Thanks for all the input, my responses are in bold. It sounds like it's as I feared and I'm going to have to save a little bit aside after I sell my 6D and spring for the A7s. On that note though, is the A7s' normal shutter any quieter than the A7's?

Charlie wrote in post #17255617
if you're not into landscapes, stick the A7s/A7. The shutter lag of the A7r is it's biggest handicap IMO, for candids or anything with people. It's a real shame, that this handicap exist. 0.060 vs 0.160 is pretty damn significant lag.

The shutter lag issue definitely stinks, but I believe the A7r still has less lag than my X-E1 and it's rarely been an issue with that camera for me, but thank you for the heads up!


Auto iso implementation. Not an issue with manual adapted lenses, you can shoot shutter priority, and compensation at the top dial.

with native lenses, you can shoot manual with auto iso and compensation.... in canonland, only a 1Dx offers.

I did notice that, and you're right, I think that would mitigate most of my problems, but I still find it odd that you can only set the minimum shutter to 1/60s (unless this has been fixed in a firmware update?)

For adapted lenses, sony beats fuji hands down. no need for speedboosters, only dummy adapters, and basically any lens would work.

This is also true and it's the main reason I'm thinking of picking one up. My focal reducer works fine for standard and telephoto lenses on my X-E1, but when it comes to wide angle lenses it really messes up the corners unfortunately.

High ISO, I would put my personal comfort level of the 6D to 25600 and A7r to 12800, even though I would rank the 6D 1/2 stop better in high ISO. Difference exists, but not too bad. A7s looks like a full stop better than the 6D, but that's only from the samples I've seen. The A7r is pretty good at high ISO even if it's a landscape machine. Noticeably better than my older 5D2, maybe even a little better than the 5D3.

That is encouraging and sounds in line with a comparison I saw on DPReview, if this is the case than I think the A7r would be plenty good enough for me in low light, but how does the EVF do in dim lighting? From what I've read the A7s is significantly better and apparently can AF in even darker light than my 6D can (-4EV) which I find hard to believe since my 6D has never failed me to AF even in absurdly low light.

ergonomics, the camera is a bit small. You can use a cheapo L bracket to beef it up, or a half case.

Not so worried about the size, more about where certain dials/buttons are located, like the ISO wheel. I've read a few people complaining about switching their ISO on accident, and by the looks of where it's located I could see that becoming an issue for me.

Shutter of the A7r is annoyingly loud. Sounds like older DSLR's, kind like the old 5Dc. Sony definitely does things differently, but dedicated dials for shutter/iso/aperture, make the system golden. It's just something I've always wanted from canon, but never got. Same thing with Autoiso in manual mode, although only really useful with native lenses.

Hmmm... again that stinking shutter If you've compared it to a 5D3 or 6D, how much louder would you say it is? My 6D lives in silent shutter mode, so I'm really hesitant about this shutter thing...

I have a LARGE set of old manual adapted lenses, and the sony has been an absolute joy for that. adapters about 11 bux for Fotga and get the job done. REALLY love the older 135/2, 85/1.2, 50/1.2. Those three cost me as much as my EF 50L and 135L, but I really have no regrets making the switch to the MF adapted versions. I still have a 70-200ii for really fast action, but honestly hardly ever used (as expected). Seems kinda frivolous swapping for full manual lenses that were pretty expensive, but they were significantly smaller. The FDn 50 1.2 is toylike in size. It's tiny compared to the EF 50 1.2 and you'de be hard pressed to tell the IQ difference, and quite frankly even the FDn 50 1.4 was pretty good (still have that lens as well). 28 2.8 is with me all the time, weighs about as much as the 40 pancake, gives me wide angle in a pinch. At the end of the day, I'm extremely happy with my set of manual lenses. I honestly could not even think about shooting these lenses a year ago.... now I've sold a few of my EF lenses in favor.

if those 1.2 glass are still too heavy, you can get smaller counterparts for cheap. 50mm F1.4 I got was $90 and very very good (90% the level of the 1.2), 135F2.8 only $80, 28mm, $30? The slower versions are very small and light.

I've got a hefty collection of MF lenses already (about 3 times what's listed in my signature, those are just my favorites

I also really like the idea of getting some Voigtlander Leica lenses for the A7(r/s) whenever I get it, I love the form factor of the 40/1.4

Thank you very much, my responses are again in bold. Keep the info coming guys, it's really helping me out! My GAS wants me to sell the 6D and get a camera NOW, but realistically I can wait a couple of months

Has anyone checked out DP Review's New Studio Comparison tool? From using that - it appears that the fuji actually produces less noise at 3200 ISO in raw than the 6D, A7, or A7R. Check it out:

http://www.dpreview.co​m …1751&y=0.558883​4006007133

Dorian7 wrote in post #17255869
Has anyone checked out DP Review's New Studio Comparison tool? From using that - it appears that the fuji actually produces less noise at 3200 ISO in raw than the 6D, A7, or A7R. Check it out:

http://www.dpreview.co​m …1751&y=0.558883​4006007133

It might have less visible grain, but the detail is nowhere near that of the others (I can tell you this from first hand experience). Look at the faces in the picture and the areas with text, note the lack of detail compared to the others.

Noise isn't everything I'd much rather have a noisy picture with lots of detail than a smooth one without definition.

I can certainly see your point.

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17255857
Thanks for all the input, my responses are in bold. It sounds like it's as I feared and I'm going to have to save a little bit aside after I sell my 6D and spring for the A7s. On that note though, is the A7s' normal shutter any quieter than the A7's?

Thank you very much, my responses are again in bold. Keep the info coming guys, it's really helping me out! My GAS wants me to sell the 6D and get a camera NOW, but realistically I can wait a couple of months

I am ready for my winter travel and this year I will still bring the Canon 5D2 and flash system plus EF lenses, next year it will be more Sony lenses, two Sony or Nissin/metablitz Sony ttl flashes and either a A7s or A7000 as second body..check out the kit vs last year with 5D2 and 7D:

I look forward of walking around with a lighter kit,

khukri wrote in post #17255688
Hello Shikhan!Where would the top shot be from? Looks like eastern Ladakh, if my memory of that place serves me well...

What FD adapter do you use? Are you satisfied with it or in hindsight you feel some other brand adapter will work better?

Also how efficient or convenient is use of the manual focus assisst system?

Thanks so much!

Hi Khukri, the first shots are from Red Rock Canyon in NV. As for my adapter, I'm using a cheap ebay FD-NEX adapter. Overall, I was happy with it, although I fully understand now why Charlie suggested having 1 adapter per lens. I've just bought a second one (trying the fotodoix from Amazon this time) to make changing lenses easier...

I really like the focus peaking, but I have noticed that when I'm at f1.4/f2, sometimes it shows more in focus that actually is. I've found that using focus peaking gets me 95% of the way there, and I'll use the quick zoom to fine tune it. I'm still trying to figure out when to use the different weights of focus peaking though.

I'm far happier with the focus peaking on the A7r than the ML focus peaking system on my 6D though.