Serious photography..... with a phone.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16447217
With a developed eye you see it as it unfolds and that seeing is incredibly creative.

It's about the moment and having the skill to capture that moment. Not to stage it. Not to manufacture it but to see it as it happens in real time and then having the skill to be able to capture it. That is one thing that photography can do that no other art form does as well. If it were easy everyone would be good at it.

I consider it skillful moreso than creative. Again, it's not about easy or difficult. Neither is better than the other.

It takes crazy skill to develop a knowledge of people, lines, framing, etc. Nailing the timing is difficult as heck. But so is removing an air suspension and installing springs/coilovers or vice versa. Skill.

It takes crazy creativity to design a set, design lighting, design warddrobe. Staging people is difficult as heck. But so is designing that air suspension or replacement springs/coilover set. Creativity.

It's the difference between making something to photograph and photographing what's provided. I think the former is creativity and the latter is skill. Both are important. Neither is better. Of course it takes skill to build the thing you decide to photograph but the creativity is thinking it up in the first place. You can't create without skill but you can have skills without creating...you *simply* use your skills on others' creations.

cdifoto wrote in post #16447231
I consider it skillful moreso than creative. Again, it's not about easy or difficult. Neither is better than the other.

It takes crazy skill to develop a knowledge of people, lines, framing, etc. Nailing the timing is difficult as heck. But so is removing an air suspension and installing springs/coilovers or vice versa. Skill.

It takes crazy creativity to build a set, put lighting together, choose warddrobe. Staging people is difficult as heck. But so is designing that air suspension or replacement springs/coilover set. Creativity.

It's about the creativity in seeing. And seeing is what it is all about, hard, easy, whatever. And that creative act of seeing is so important as a photographer. I've worked and still work in both worlds and to do either one well is not easy. Seeing the moment is every bit as difficult and creative as manufacturing it.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16447240
It's about the creativity in seeing. And seeing is what it is all about, hard, easy, whatever. And that creative act of seeing is so important as a photographer. I worked in both worlds and to do either one well is not easy. Seeing the moment is every bit as difficult and creative as manufacturing it.

I don't think "seeing" is, in and of itself, creative. It takes skill to take what the eyes send to the brain and make a photo but it doesn't take creativity.

cdifoto wrote in post #16447189
Unless you have a crystal ball, you don't see a moment in advance. If you saw it, you already missed it. It takes skill to make an educated approximation as to what will happen, but it doesn't take creativity. Usually experience is what makes that easier. Again, not creativity.

Call it what you will, but the abililty to interpret a moment, and in turn to capture it, is the hallmark of a great photograph - and great photographer. Is that skill? Certainly. Can skill be use to create, and thus be creative -- again, absolutely.

If I spend my days doing brake jobs on cars, then:

* The act of replacing brakes -- skill
* Finding a way to complete more break jobs in a day, and becoming more profitable -- creativity
* Experimenting with different configurations of pads, testing new schedules for turning rotors to prolong their life -- creativity again.

In this instance, my creativity could likely breed commercial success. Or I could just be quietly satisfied knowing that I used my skill to adventure into new areas of my craft.

Since every properly exposed, color corrected, and in focus image of a kiss DOESN'T look the same, something must separate them. I would say its the creativity of the artist behind the camera.

mattograph wrote in post #16447248
Call it what you will, but the abililty to interpret a moment, and in turn to capture it, is the hallmark of a great photograph - and great photographer. Is that skill? Certainly. Can skill be use to create, and thus be creative -- again, absolutely.

If I spend my days doing brake jobs on cars, then:

* The act of replacing brakes -- skill
* Finding a way to complete more break jobs in a day, and becoming more profitable -- creativity
* Experimenting with different configurations of pads, testing new schedules for turning rotors to prolong their life -- creativity again.

In this instance, my creativity could likely breed commercial success. Or I could just be quietly satisfied knowing that I used my skill to adventure into new areas of my craft.

Since every properly exposed, color corrected, and in focus image of a kiss DOESN'T look the same, something must separate them. I would say its the creativity of the artist behind the camera.

Yes it takes skill to be creative but being skilled is not creative.

mattograph wrote in post #16447248
Since every properly exposed, color corrected, and in focus image of a kiss DOESN'T look the same, something must separate them. I would say its the creativity of the artist behind the camera.

Assuming the same kiss, I would say the mere passage of time and/or the exclusivity of three dimensional space occupation is what separates those images. Not creativity.

cdifoto wrote in post #16447246
I don't think "seeing" is, in and of itself, creative. It takes skill to take what the eyes send to the brain and make a photo but it doesn't take creativity.

You would be wrong then. The act of seeing is the creativity in photography. To be able see a project that you manufacture is creative. To be able see the moment when the photograph becomes a photograph is just as creative.

cdifoto wrote in post #16447258
Assuming the same kiss, I would say the mere passage of time and/or the exclusivity of three dimensional space occupation is what separates those images. Not creativity.

Is a top surgeon creative? How about a top pilot? Politician? Athlete?

If, as websters defines creativity as being of imagination -- then I would argue that to acquire the skill necessary to be at the top of your game, than you must have the imagination to ask the questions that develop the skill, and the creativity to use them.

If I haven't explained myself adequately on this point, I apologize. Trust me though when I say that regardless of the interpretation, my viewpoint is the correct one. I am sometimes misunderstood, but always correct.

Its a curse.

"The camera doesn't make a bit of difference. All of them can record what you are seeing. But, you have to SEE." - Ernst Haas

mattograph wrote in post #16447292
Is a top surgeon creative? How about a top pilot? Politician? Athlete?

If, as websters defines creativity as being of imagination -- then I would argue that to acquire the skill necessary to be at the top of your game, than you must have the imagination to ask the questions that develop the skill, and the creativity to use them.

If I haven't explained myself adequately on this point, I apologize. Trust me though when I say that regardless of the interpretation, my viewpoint is the correct one. I am sometimes misunderstood, but always correct.

Its a curse.

I don't paint photography with such a broad brush so why would I do so with surgery, flying, politics, or athletics?

Hmm, this has been an interesting conversation, but way off-topic, maybe a subject for a new thread? I might even be able to contribute!

But for the topic, it would be interesting to actually hear "reports" and see results of camera phones being used in "serious" photography, but I'd be less interested in following links to stories but hearing from actual members here!

nicksan wrote in post #16447159
.......What do you think about having different perspectives...i.e. shooting something as "routine" as a kiss, but in a different way? Perhaps it's the angle, the position, whatever. But it's different. Is there creativity involved there?

You didn't ask me, but IMHO, yes.

I just find it hard to think that some would believe that Robert Franks work wasn't creative.
http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=mHtRZBDOgag

NY Times photographer Ben Lowry uses his iphone as a serious image making tool. He has some amazing photos from the conflict in Iraq.

fullyreclined wrote in post #16448704
NY Times photographer Ben Lowry uses his iphone as a serious image making tool. He has some amazing photos from the conflict in Iraq.

Ernst Haas said it so well in the quote I posted in # 85