Is owning a Canon Rebel a joke?

Honestly I don't care what people use to photograph with nor if someone sales a print made from walgreens and call themselves a pro. I say live and let live. Use the word pro however you like it's ok. I myself will never claim to be pro no matter how much money I make from photography it's my real profession that pays the bills. The money that I do make from my many hobbies pays for my equipment. Also carefully read my statement about "pro's" having degree's/certification I started it with IMO= IN MY OPINION. Everyone is allowed one.

To the OP if someone talks down to about your rebel just ask them to show you their medium format or large format camera like hasselblad h5d and watch happens. The so called "pro's" don't even know what that is. Most right now are hitting the goggle button.

OneDeep wrote in post #16448833
So should I not charge money for my photos in the future because I'm not a pro? Or I shouldn't do photos for free. I'm confused

If the customer familar with your work and willing to pay I say charge! Again the way it works if you have a camera you can call yourself pro. A lot of people do it everyday. Camera + website + blog = pro!!!

frankwite wrote in post #16448839
I myself will never claim to be pro no matter how much money I make from photography

Um. Okay. You've completely lost me though

frankwite wrote in post #16448839
Also carefully read my statement about "pro's" having degree's/certification I started it with IMO= IN MY OPINION. Everyone is allowed one.

But an opinion would normally be backed by some thoughts. When would a practicioner need certification? What part of photography would make you have the opinion that there should be certification? And how does it differ from someone carving bowls, or writing books or makes oil paintings? An ugly photo doesn't differ much from an ugly bowl or ugly painting or a lousy book. So what purpose would certification fill? And would it cover artistic skills, technical skills or business skills?

To the OP if someone talks down to about your rebel just ask them to show you their medium format or large format camera like hasselblad h5d and watch happens. The so called "pro's" don't even know what that is. Most right now are hitting the goggle button.

People with their nose high in the air need not be stupid - lots of people who doesn't know about photography have heard about Hasselblad. This thread isn't so much about peoples skills, but about peoples views and values. Skilled people can also have twisted values and make stupid comments. Skill doesn't imply intelligence or being openminded. Stupid comments tends to come from people who see a need to worry/control what other people do instead of focusing on their own life. People who see threats instead of opportunities.

frankwite wrote in post #16448839
To the OP if someone talks down to about your rebel just ask them to show you their medium format or large format camera like hasselblad h5d and watch happens. The so called "pro's" don't even know what that is. Most right now are hitting the goggle button.

Lol.

waterrockets wrote in post #16448945
Um. Okay. You've completely lost me though

Hey don't even worry about it. Really it's not that important to confuse yourself over something so simple typed by some random guy on the internet. No really it's okay. Just let it go and exhale.

pwm2 wrote in post #16448955
But an opinion would normally be backed by some thoughts. When would a practicioner need certification? What part of photography would make you have the opinion that there should be certification? And how does it differ from someone carving bowls, or writing books or makes oil paintings? An ugly photo doesn't differ much from an ugly bowl or ugly painting or a lousy book. So what purpose would certification fill? And would it cover artistic skills, technical skills or business skills?

People with their nose high in the air need not be stupid - lots of people who doesn't know about photography have heard about Hasselblad. This thread isn't so much about peoples skills, but about peoples views and values. Skilled people can also have twisted values and make stupid comments. Skill doesn't imply intelligence or being openminded. Stupid comments tends to come from people who see a need to worry/control what other people do instead of focusing on their own life. People who see threats instead of opportunities.

What??? I'm glad that you thought about your opinion when you typed it. Look up the word opinion. Oh yeah thanks for opinion even though it has nothing to do with anything I said. Please ask the person right next to you have they ever heard of hasselblad and I'll wait for your answer (no not really). I couldn't careless if they hadn't heard of a kodak instamatic I was addressing the op, but thanks again for your interest in my post. I'm not here to debate or play word play in the op's thread. It's just plain ole disrespectful to the op. I suggest that you open your own thread and debate this as much as you like. Let's get back on track here. Remember I retracted my statement about using the word pro. "Pro's" for everyone!!!

Yeah, the "opinion" definition is a helpful reminder when it clarifies that it's not based on facts or knowledge.

waterrockets wrote in post #16448945
Um. Okay. You've completely lost me though

My take on what he was saying is just because you get paid it doesnt make you a pro. A pro could be regarded as someone at the top of their game, a person of exceptional skill. Thus he doesnt feel he is at that level regardless of whether he was getting paid?

Somebloke wrote in post #16449203
My take on what he was saying is just because you get paid it doesnt make you a pro. A pro could be regarded as someone at the top of their game, a person of exceptional skill. Thus he doesnt feel he is at that level regardless of whether he was getting paid?

But dispensing with how much someone makes from photography as a "pro" qualifier is dubious. I have a friend who started building bicycle wheels for himself and his friends. Eventually he got enough of a stream of orders going that he had to decide whether to leave his profession (in IT) to start a wheel-building business. Now, that's how he makes his living. He has no certification or education, just his experience. He's not measurably better at building wheels than he was as a hobbyist. I would call him a professional wheel builder. To say otherwise is silly.

waterrockets wrote in post #16449282
But dispensing with how much someone makes from photography as a "pro" qualifier is dubious. I have a friend who started building bicycle wheels for himself and his friends. Eventually he got enough of a stream of orders going that he had to decide whether to leave his profession (in IT) to start a wheel-building business. Now, that's how he makes his living. He has no certification or education, just his experience. He's not measurably better at building wheels than he was as a hobbyist. I would call him a professional wheel builder. To say otherwise is silly.

I guess it all depends on your opinion. By definaition a professionsal is someone who is an expert with specialised knowledge who has completed formal education and performs a high quality of work. If the product he delivers is a high quality then yes I guess he could be called a pro..

As for a photog though-I guess its possible to deliver average quality work and be paid-think of shopping centre baby pics? I think this is what he was aluding to-they are not necessarily 'pros' by his defination as they arent providing high quality work?

Gentlemen...I leave you boys to play nicely together for a day and look what happens? I come back 4 pages later and we're arguing. So lets sum up what we've learned so far. #1. The Rebel is a perfectly wonderful camera and those who look down on it have a "little man complex". #2. You shouldn't bow to peer pressure and go FF just because some people are bullies and/or mediocre photographers so they buy "the best" camera equipment in an act to ease their inferiority complex or in an attempt to improve their photography skills, neither of which works. Go FF if you want and can afford it but do it because YOU want to or need to in order to achieve your personal goals with your photography. #3. I have a witty and sharp sense of humor. #4. There are many legitimate reasons to grip your camera, but listing them totally kills my buzz and personal amusement. #5. Some people have strong opinions on whether or not anyone without a degree can actually be called a "professional photographer". Personally, I've never referred to myself that way but after looking up the definition of "professional", I just may start. Professional: "relating to a job that requires special education, training, or skill." I've had education and training and several people on POTN have mentioned that I even have some "skill". (I'm totally kidding about calling myself a "professional", I'll just stick with "landscape" or "Fine art photographer".) #6 There are some wonderful people on this thread that ALSO happen to have a great sense of humor. And finally, #7. Any person who quotes any portion of this comment with a negative response- is clearly one of the POTN members that is completely lacking in the sense of humor and fun personality department. Yeah, I said it.

Fixed for you

Fitness Freak wrote in post #16449375
Gentlemen...I leave you boys to play nicely together for a day and look what happens? I come back 4 pages later and we're arguing.

So lets sum up what we've learned so far.

#1. The Rebel is a perfectly wonderful camera and those who look down on it have a "little man complex".

#2. You shouldn't bow to peer pressure and go FF just because some people are bullies and/or mediocre photographers so they buy "the best" camera equipment in an act to ease their inferiority complex or in an attempt to improve their photography skills, neither of which works. Go FF if you want and can afford it but do it because YOU want to or need to in order to achieve your personal goals with your photography.

#3. I have a witty and sharp sense of humor.

#4. There are many legitimate reasons to grip your camera, but listing them totally kills my buzz and personal amusement.

#5. Some people have strong opinions on whether or not anyone without a degree can actually be called a "professional photographer". Personally, I've never referred to myself that way but after looking up the definition of "professional", I just may start. Professional: "relating to a job that requires special education, training, or skill." I've had education and training and several people on POTN have mentioned that I even have some "skill". (I'm totally kidding about calling myself a "professional", I'll just stick with "landscape" or "Fine art photographer".)

#6 There are some wonderful people on this thread that ALSO happen to have a great sense of humor.

And finally, #7. Any person who quotes any portion of this comment with a negative response- is clearly one of the POTN members that is completely lacking in the sense of humor and fun personality department. Yeah, I said it.

Somebloke wrote in post #16449365
I guess it all depends on your opinion. By definaition a professionsal is someone who is an expert with specialised knowledge who has completed formal education and performs a high quality of work. If the product he delivers is a high quality then yes I guess he could be called a pro..

As for a photog though-I guess its possible to deliver average quality work and be paid-think of shopping centre baby pics? I think this is what he was aluding to-they are not necessarily 'pros' by his defination as they arent providing high quality work?

I guess that's the distinction made by a word like "great." "Professional" is a little more vanilla, in the dictionary anyway.

I have beaten professional bike racers in races before, but I've never beaten anyone great

Here is my take:

1. The Rebel is not a real camera because it doesn't cost as much as full frame. (Because we all know when you pay 10x more for something, you get 10x more...cough...cough, Mercedes, etc)
2. Crop sensors are smaller than full frame, and therefore it's the equivalent of having a small you-know-what. (Uh huh, but I'll take my free 1.6x extension on my lenses that doesn't degrade quality substantially )
3. Pros must use pro gear (because the guys on YouTube creating near Hollywood quality productions are all using $100,000+ video cameras...right?)
4. Rebels only have 18MP. (Because you NEED 22MP for a 8x11 print).
5. Rebels are made of cheap plastics and fall apart in your hands (Ok...this might be true if you dropped it....lol)

Case in point, people will hate for no other reason that they can hate. Things that may have contributed to the Rebel "bad name" is the fact EVERYBODY AND THEIR DOG buys one, and most people don't know the first few things about real photography, therefore there are a lot of not so great pictures out there. Typically unless people are rolling in money or have spending complexes, typically only people who take photography seriously will by a 5D, therefore the percent of good images is substantially higher than those posted by Rebel users.

A good camera does not mean good photos. Our resident work "photographer" takes the liberty of busting out his Nikon DSLR (I don't remember the number) and takes plenty of worse-than-cellphone pictures...unlimited DOF, poor/no framing, under/overexposed, boring subject matter...I have not seen a single picture from him that actually "wowed" me. I (not to toot my own horn) have shown off some of my images taken with my T3i and Canon 70-300mm and have gotten great reviews on them. Goes to show it's the user, not the equipment. If you Rebel works for you, use it!