Falling out of love with aps-c...

Beachcomber Joe wrote in post #16445396
Neither application presents much of an autofocus challenge unless conditions are very dark. The 6D will give you similar image quality to your 5D III in a smaller, less expensive package. It's autofocus is similar to the autofocus of the 5D II. That camera continues to be used, very successfully, by a large number of professional photographers. For events and weddings the 6D's only drawback is its 1/180 flash sync speed.

The 6d is one of the cameras I haven't used to be honest... To give a bit more context, over the years I've used (not necessarily owned):
- 5d
- 5d2
- 5d3
- 1d2n
- 1d4
- 50d
- d800
- d700
- d3s

I realise weddings and events aren't the most demanding in terms of AF, and 9 times out of 10 the focus and recompose technique isn't an issue, but when you've tasted the good stuff

It's definitely interesting though that most people are recommending another FF body, despite the AF disadvantages encountered in my budget. Maybe the IQ and lack of full-frame of the 50d is having an impact on me more than I realise... I like how people on this forum make you think - always so helpful

I found having two bodies only works if I feel equally good about them, or if one of the bodies fulfills a specific need (like small form factor, as in the case of my m4:3 format camera.

It isn't the format, but the performance. I owned a 30D at the time that I bought my 5D. I planned to keep the 30D for 'reach' but after a few months I sold it. The image difference between the 5D and 30D was apparent to me, and so I stopped using the 30D.

Today I have two dSLRs with two formats and I use them both for their own strengths. But the images between them are nearly equal, which is a main factor. If I had my 5D3 and a 50D (like the OP) I know I would probably stop using the 50D for much beyond extreme reach (which I don't really do) as well.

If you don't need the reach or ultra wide angle(ironic, huh?), then I'd go with a second FF camera.

If you like to shoot with two cameras and need to switch back and forth quickly, that's always easiest with the same model... i.e. two 5DIIIs in your case.

It completely depends upon what you shoot, how you shoot it, and how deep your pockets are which format is going to be best for you.

If you use long teles a lot, you might still be in love with APS-C. If you don't, well then FF is might be best for you.

If you love wide angles, FF will usually be better than crop.

If you like to travel light, one of the APS-C is more than adequate for many people. If you don't mind a heavier kit, then FF can serve you well.

If you're on a tight budget, better stick with APS-C. If not so much, what the heck, go FF.

If you print big, really big, then FF is probably the way to go (or medium format, if you have really deep pockets).

Some people prefer using or need to use different formats for different things. I use FF a bit, but about 90% of my shooting is with crop. I choose to use 1.6X APS-C because of the greater difference between that and FF, than the 1.3X APS-H offers.

Back in the days of film I used 35mm, medium format and large format cameras. Great thing today with digital is that, for the large part, you can use one set of lenses and other accessories on two formats. That saves a lot of duplication. Back in the days of film, we had to have a set of lenses for each format. Some accessories were dedicated to one system or the other, too.

Thank you all so much - a lot of food for thought.

Lol

UKmitch86 wrote in post #16445170
Not sure if you have any interest in sports or wildlife, but maybe this will help conclude;

1Ds (any gen) - FF, great AF
1D (any gen) - 1.3 crop, great AF
5D (1, 2) - FF, poor AF
5D (3) - FF, great AF
6D - FF, great AF
7D - 1.6 crop, great AF
00D - 1.6 crop, reasonable AF

I know I couldn't do without a 1.6 for sports and wildlife, but sounds like you can. Maybe keep your options open with a 7D.

I thought the 6D had pretty bad AF compared to the 7D?

chrismarriott66 wrote in post #16444728
Hi guys,

To set the scene a bit, I currently have a 5d3, 50d, and 20d. When I got the 50d (upgrade from 450d) I absolutely loved it... thought it was the dogs-b's. I purchased a used 20d as a backup to the 50d, but it very very rarely gets used. Then, just over a year ago I purchased the 5d3... there's no point me raving about it or proclaiming how I felt, because I guess most people understand already.

Anyway... I do tend to use two bodies simultaneously quite frequently (5d3 and 50d), but over the past year the 50d has spent more time handing off my shoulder than held up to my eye. I find myself at times simply using the 50d as a lens holder for when I want to swap what's on the 5d! I guess I'm just falling out of love with the aps-c sensor now that I've experienced the joys of full-frame. Surely I'm not the only one to feel this?

I'm thinking about getting rid of the 20d, and demoting the 50d to the backup. The question then is what do I replace it with? The obvious answer I guess is another 5d3, but I can't justify that expenditure at the minute - I'm wondering if picking up something like a 1d2n or 1d3 would be better suited for my needs. The reason I'm suggesting a 1d body is because of the AF system... I'd love another FF body, but with the AF system of the 5d1 and 5d2, I know it will just hang off my shoulder like the 50d. There is always the 7d, but of course it's still aps-c...

I am currently borrowing a colleague's old 1d2n to play with, and I must admit it's very nice... yes there are issues like the 2-hand menu system, small screen, old tech, etc. but there's no doubting it's still a very nice bit of kit. A 1d2n would set me back about £350-400 used at the minute, whereas a 1d3 or 7d would be more like £600-700.

If anyone has any inspiring words of wisdom or advice about my options, please do chip in

Chris

Hi!
1D III, 1D II or IIn. Crop is 1.3 wich is perfect for me. They sell for cheap and are solid like tanks. Good AF options on all of them. I have a 1D III and looking for the same as a back-up. I admit that are heavier than the 5d... and the grip is different ( awesome ! )

chrismarriott66 wrote in post #16444728
Hi guys,

To set the scene a bit, I currently have a 5d3, 50d, and 20d. When I got the 50d (upgrade from 450d) I absolutely loved it... thought it was the dogs-b's. I purchased a used 20d as a backup to the 50d, but it very very rarely gets used. Then, just over a year ago I purchased the 5d3... there's no point me raving about it or proclaiming how I felt, because I guess most people understand already.

Anyway... I do tend to use two bodies simultaneously quite frequently (5d3 and 50d), but over the past year the 50d has spent more time handing off my shoulder than held up to my eye. I find myself at times simply using the 50d as a lens holder for when I want to swap what's on the 5d! I guess I'm just falling out of love with the aps-c sensor now that I've experienced the joys of full-frame. Surely I'm not the only one to feel this?

I'm thinking about getting rid of the 20d, and demoting the 50d to the backup. The question then is what do I replace it with? The obvious answer I guess is another 5d3, but I can't justify that expenditure at the minute - I'm wondering if picking up something like a 1d2n or 1d3 would be better suited for my needs. The reason I'm suggesting a 1d body is because of the AF system... I'd love another FF body, but with the AF system of the 5d1 and 5d2, I know it will just hang off my shoulder like the 50d. There is always the 7d, but of course it's still aps-c...

I am currently borrowing a colleague's old 1d2n to play with, and I must admit it's very nice... yes there are issues like the 2-hand menu system, small screen, old tech, etc. but there's no doubting it's still a very nice bit of kit. A 1d2n would set me back about £350-400 used at the minute, whereas a 1d3 or 7d would be more like £600-700.

If anyone has any inspiring words of wisdom or advice about my options, please do chip in

Chris

Here's my personal experience. After years using so-called crop cameras, I ended up with a full frame Canon 5D. Amazingly, the images from the 5D looked just like the crop camera images. In other words, don't expect miracles.

chrismarriott66 wrote in post #16444728
Hi guys,

To set the scene a bit, I currently have a 5d3, 50d, and 20d. When I got the 50d (upgrade from 450d) I absolutely loved it... thought it was the dogs-b's. I purchased a used 20d as a backup to the 50d, but it very very rarely gets used. Then, just over a year ago I purchased the 5d3... there's no point me raving about it or proclaiming how I felt, because I guess most people understand already.

Anyway... I do tend to use two bodies simultaneously quite frequently (5d3 and 50d), but over the past year the 50d has spent more time handing off my shoulder than held up to my eye. I find myself at times simply using the 50d as a lens holder for when I want to swap what's on the 5d! I guess I'm just falling out of love with the aps-c sensor now that I've experienced the joys of full-frame. Surely I'm not the only one to feel this?

I'm thinking about getting rid of the 20d, and demoting the 50d to the backup. The question then is what do I replace it with? The obvious answer I guess is another 5d3, but I can't justify that expenditure at the minute - I'm wondering if picking up something like a 1d2n or 1d3 would be better suited for my needs. The reason I'm suggesting a 1d body is because of the AF system... I'd love another FF body, but with the AF system of the 5d1 and 5d2, I know it will just hang off my shoulder like the 50d. There is always the 7d, but of course it's still aps-c...

I am currently borrowing a colleague's old 1d2n to play with, and I must admit it's very nice... yes there are issues like the 2-hand menu system, small screen, old tech, etc. but there's no doubting it's still a very nice bit of kit. A 1d2n would set me back about £350-400 used at the minute, whereas a 1d3 or 7d would be more like £600-700.

If anyone has any inspiring words of wisdom or advice about my options, please do chip in

Chris

The 5D3 is substantially better than the 50D in just about every single way, so I could definitely see never really shooting with the 50D again. However, the newer crops, and ones yet not announced, are better as well, so the delta won't be quite as great.

I shoot with both the 5D3 and 7D. If I had a 50D (and I have had several in the past years), I also would never really shoot with it, due to the old AF system and worst ISO performance of the 3 I just listed.

A 7D or 70D or the fabled 7D2 would all be good crop bodies to pair up with your 5D3, due to their 19pt AF and better ISO handling as compared to the 50D.

Also, I live by the motto of "if I don't use it, I won't own it", so if you have a camera that isn't doing anything, find a new home for it (sell it, gift it, etc).

To the OP - Similar scenario. Last week, I traded my 7D + $350 for a 5D2 on Craigslist. That 7D had been with me for years, so it was hard to let it go. However, it wasn't seeing primary use and I knew that the reason was I wanted that full frame "look". I also wanted to know that all my lenses would be roughly equivalent on either camera without having to think about crop factor.

I don't see what the huge fuss is about 5D2 AF. The 5D2 was a professional dream when it came out. I can turn to the 5D3 when AF performance is critical. If the 5D2 isn't focusing quickly enough, the AF assist beam on the speedlite will help any AF point (whether or not the flash actually fires). I'm getting used to a 98% viewfinder - which isn't critical, since I'm not perfect and I do crop many of my images (slightly) anyway. Otherwise, my only complaints about the 5D2 are that it's a bit louder and feels a bit older. It's not as ergonomic and I don't like the on/off switch. These aren't serious gripes now, are they?

I wanted some consistency between two bodies and now I have it. I could be happier - if I had more expensive bodies =P But honestly, this does me quite well.

Frodge wrote in post #16444743
Sell your crop and get a 5d3 or 1dx. You've answered your own questions.

there you go
But I still love aps-c until something like the 5D3 gets reasonable in price

DC Fan wrote in post #16449111
Here's my personal experience. After years using so-called crop cameras, I ended up with a full frame Canon 5D. Amazingly, the images from the 5D looked just like the crop camera images. In other words, don't expect miracles.

I appreciate this honest assessment. Sometimes I thin of getting a ff body because of all the talk on be forums. This gives me good for thought, being that I have a t3i and 60d. Thanks for your assessment.

DC Fan wrote in post #16449111
Here's my personal experience. After years using so-called crop cameras, I ended up with a full frame Canon 5D. Amazingly, the images from the 5D looked just like the crop camera images. In other words, don't expect miracles.

You're just not seeing the differences, but the differences will be quite noticeable the more you shoot and experience it, even compared to shiny newer sensors like the EOS-M. I'm getting another 5D classic as well, since the IQ is quite superb, and I dont have to deal with the crop factor.

DC Fan wrote in post #16449111
Here's my personal experience. After years using so-called crop cameras, I ended up with a full frame Canon 5D. Amazingly, the images from the 5D looked just like the crop camera images. In other words, don't expect miracles.

I have both so I know the difference... it is quite significant for what I shoot imho Yes if you're a landscape shooter then a 5d + 16-35 isn't going to look that much better than a 7d with a 10-22, but when you're after shallow DOF the difference is noticeable.

rickabie59 wrote in post #16448586
Hi!
1D III, 1D II or IIn. Crop is 1.3 wich is perfect for me. They sell for cheap and are solid like tanks. Good AF options on all of them. I have a 1D III and looking for the same as a back-up. I admit that are heavier than the 5d... and the grip is different ( awesome ! )

Lol yeah, I think if I ran over this 1d2n I've got on loan my car would come off worse

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16449112
I shoot with both the 5D3 and 7D. If I had a 50D (and I have had several in the past years), I also would never really shoot with it, due to the old AF system and worst ISO performance of the 3 I just listed.

That's interesting, thanks...

Nathan wrote in post #16449137
I don't see what the huge fuss is about 5D2 AF. The 5D2 was a professional dream when it came out. I can turn to the 5D3 when AF performance is critical.

Very true!

Nathan wrote in post #16449137
Otherwise, my only complaints about the 5D2 are that it's a bit louder and feels a bit older.

Yeah, but that's only because the silent feature on the 5d3 is *amazing*.

Nathan wrote in post #16449137
I wanted some consistency between two bodies and now I have it.

The more I think about it, the more I think that's probably more important than an uber AF system - as you say, I have it in the 5d3 if I need it.

Thanks for your reply Nathan, very useful

Charlie wrote in post #16449734
You're just not seeing the differences, but the differences will be quite noticeable the more you shoot and experience it, even compared to shiny newer sensors like the EOS-M. I'm getting another 5D classic as well, since the IQ is quite superb, and I dont have to deal with the crop factor.

I agree Charlie, the difference is noticeable... and maybe a 5d1/5dc is the way to go for me? Certainly the cheaper option and still clean at 1600.