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Thread started 17 Nov 2013 (Sunday) 06:01
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focus screen for 7d and lens choices

 
ceriltheblade
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Nov 17, 2013 06:01 |  #1

Hi there

question:

I am was wondering if others here have the Katz (or other) alternative focus screen for the 7d for use with ZE zeiss MF lenses. Do they work THAT much better than your eye with the OEM focus screen? Does it matter if the lenses are different focal lengths? I am considering either the ZE 21, or the ZE 100 or both.

I also understood that sometimes focus lenses can darken the viewfinder, which may be problematic for my use with the MPE65 at smaller apertures. Can anyone expand on the view finder changes, please?

thanks for any input.


7D/5dIII
50 1.8 II, MP-E65, 85 II, 100 IS
8-15 FE, 10-22, 16-35 IS, 24-105, 70-200 f4IS, 100-400 ii, tamron 28-75 2.8
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Wilt
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Nov 17, 2013 18:28 |  #2

The 7D uses what is called a 'transmissive display' unlike bodies that have user-swappable focus screens (like 40D).

Third party focus screens with center focus aides (split screen or microprism) WILL hurt accuracy of the metering system particularly in Spot mode, and POTN members have reported 2EV of error in meter readings.

Split screens and microprisms grow dark and useless with smaller max apertures, like f/5.6 and f/8.


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ceriltheblade
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Nov 17, 2013 23:37 |  #3

thanks Wilt.

Well, then, that ends my search for the MF lenses on my 7d and third party focus screens. I need my camera to be able to do 5.6-8 and even smaller (effective aperture can be quite small in the higher magnifications)


I will either have to forego MF lenses, learn how to use them with the existing system, or get a body which can allow the third party focus screens (or Canon can get a clue and allow it is a real OEM option in their bodies....naaah...won;​t happen! :) )


7D/5dIII
50 1.8 II, MP-E65, 85 II, 100 IS
8-15 FE, 10-22, 16-35 IS, 24-105, 70-200 f4IS, 100-400 ii, tamron 28-75 2.8
600 ex-rt, 055xproB/488rc2/Sirui k40x, kenko extens tubes

  
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pyrojim
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Nov 18, 2013 00:07 |  #4

ceriltheblade wrote in post #16459867 (external link)
thanks Wilt.

Well, then, that ends my search for the MF lenses on my 7d and third party focus screens. I need my camera to be able to do 5.6-8 and even smaller (effective aperture can be quite small in the higher magnifications)


I will either have to forego MF lenses, learn how to use them with the existing system, or get a body which can allow the third party focus screens (or Canon can get a clue and allow it is a real OEM option in their bodies....naaah...won;​t happen! :) )

Katz eye does make screens for the 7D. But if you buy a 7D, chances are high you are buying it for its killer autofocus. Which is, very very good.

So if you want to use manual focus go ahead, but also use live view. There is little reason NOT to. Also the zeiss 21 and 100 are over-rated. Especially for their price. The 100L is just as sharp and goes 1:1 AND is cheaper AND(omg another) is weather sealed. People say things like Zeiss 3D rendering which is a lovely crock of poop(I'm bring polite here :) ), but I've never seen it and I've used some zeiss medium format lenses. If I don't see it there...

As far as canon getting a clue, it's a complicated decision. Allowing, or more properly said, providing the option to change screens is now a holdout way of thinking. YOU, honestly don't focus better than the new cameras, and are very subject to error. The cameras are subject to manufacturing error alone, which is small anyway. The point is why on earth do you want to manual focus a substandard lens on a camera with a seriously advanced and very good autofocus system?


And for using the MPE-65, I'd think live view would be a GODSEND.


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ceriltheblade
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Nov 18, 2013 02:35 |  #5

pyrojim wrote in post #16459908 (external link)
Katz eye does make screens for the 7D. But if you buy a 7D, chances are high you are buying it for its killer autofocus. Which is, very very good.

So if you want to use manual focus go ahead, but also use live view. There is little reason NOT to. Also the zeiss 21 and 100 are over-rated. Especially for their price. The 100L is just as sharp and goes 1:1 AND is cheaper AND(omg another) is weather sealed. People say things like Zeiss 3D rendering which is a lovely crock of poop(I'm bring polite here :) ), but I've never seen it and I've used some zeiss medium format lenses. If I don't see it there...


As far as canon getting a clue, it's a complicated decision. Allowing, or more properly said, providing the option to change screens is now a holdout way of thinking. YOU, honestly don't focus better than the new cameras, and are very subject to error. The cameras are subject to manufacturing error alone, which is small anyway. The point is why on earth do you want to manual focus a substandard lens on a camera with a seriously advanced and very good autofocus system?

And for using the MPE-65, I'd think live view would be a GODSEND.

It seems that there are a lot of people with strong opinions about the zeiss in general. I haven't made any decision yet, and even if I decide to get the lens or not... it most certainly will not be because I believe that the lens itself is substandard. but thanks for your input.

In regards to MF - I most certainly don't believe that I can outfocus the camera! I am sure I would do a crap job in comparison, in fact. But for MF lenses, you are stuck doing just that....manually focusing. And I was just looking for a tool which would help my pathetic excuse for eyes to focus the way I would like! :) And the problem in regards to using the liveview is that I find the responsiveness very slow, difficult to use accurately in daylight, and awkward to use in comparison to the view finder. If I have to, I will use it.... but my preference is otherwise.

In regards to the MPE - as many people here in the macro section can attest - both methods are used...though (my guess here solely from my own personal impressions) it is not very few who use the viewfinder. Though the method of focusingcan be different especially with an eye for focus stacking etc....

anyway, thanks for your opinions. have a great day


7D/5dIII
50 1.8 II, MP-E65, 85 II, 100 IS
8-15 FE, 10-22, 16-35 IS, 24-105, 70-200 f4IS, 100-400 ii, tamron 28-75 2.8
600 ex-rt, 055xproB/488rc2/Sirui k40x, kenko extens tubes

  
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amfoto1
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Nov 18, 2013 09:29 |  #6

I'd suggest you rent the two Zeiss lenses and take them for a test drive before you buy them and modify your camera.

I don't think you'll find all that huge a diff between images from the 21mm and from your 10-22mm. Or between your 100/2.8 USM macro and the 100 ZE Makro (except that the latter has f2.0).

The Zeiss lenses won't dim down the viewfinder due to the aperture, the way some manual focus lenses will. The reason is that the ZE lenses use an aperture control very similar to what all Canon lenses (including the MP-E 65mm and Canon TS-E lenses) do. The lens is maintained wide open until the instant the photo is taken, when it momentarily stops down.

In contrast, some manual focus lenses with fully manual aperture control too - such as the Rokinon/Samyang/Bower/​ProOptic/Vivitar/etc. and any adapted vintage lens - do dim down the viewfinder whenever you manually stop the lens down prior to taking a shot. A vintage lens I use (Tamron SP 90mm f2.5 macro "Adaptall 2") makes for a pretty dim view when stopped down to f11 and combined with an extension tube!

Focus Confirmation will work on the Zeiss lenses and the Canon manual focus lenses, as well as on other manual focus and even adapted lenses so long as they are "chipped". But, again, Focus Confirmation begins to fail when the lens is stopped down to smaller apertures.

You can use Live View, too, though it's a slower process. If you set Exposure Simulation on, that can overcome dim views due to stopped down, manual aperture lenses. Using Live View to you'll find yourself zooming in to check focus, then back out to check composition.

Manual focus screens add features that old, manual focus cameras used to have, but modern AF cameras no longer do. Key amont these are a center "split image" focusing assist dot, sometimes surrounded by a "microdiaprism donut". These visually help you set manual focus. The center split image rangefinder dot is useful with shorter focal lengths, but will start to "black out" with longer (135mm and up). For longer focal lengths you have to switch to using the microdiaprisms (which is sort of like a whole bunch of very tiny split image rangefinders).

Previous post is correct... Likely if you add a manual focus screen to your 7D, your Spot Metering will no longer be usable. It's possible Partial Metering will be influenced, too. If using Evaluative Metering with the center AF point (or any active point(s) covered by the manual focus assist features), I'd be a bit concerned about the accuracy too, since that mode puts extra emphasis on the active AF point(s).

Oh, and the MP-E is a difficult lens to use for more than just it's manual focus. At the really high magnifications it's capable of, some of the problems are the same as when using a really long super telephoto: it can be tough to even find your subject and get them in the field of view. Just tightening the knobs on a tripod head can throw off your composition. Plus the slightest movement of the focus ring can throw things unrecognizably out of focus. Still, it's a lens that goes places no other lens can.

As an old fart who used manual focus cameras and lenses for a couple decades... I can tell you manual focus is nowhere near as fast as modern AF with a good AF lens and camera. And even when I was well practiced and my eyes and reflexes were a lot younger, I was nowhere near as accurate as modern AF, either. No one was. I have an old Thomas Mangelsen print that he shot back in the day with his Canon FD lenses and cameras.... and focus is slightly off (it's still a very nice print!)

A couple things I do sort of miss about the old days of manual focus, film, etc... Photography was a lot harder (try shooting everything at ISO 50 sometime) so there were far, far fewer "Craigs' List professionals" and you could still make a decent living selling stock or shooting weddings. And there was a whole lot less obsessing and whining about "sharpness". Hell, sometimes we were just happy to get the shot at all, and if it was critically sharp too that was a bonus.


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focus screen for 7d and lens choices
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