Are Tripod load ratings exaggerated?

Hey folks,

Trying to upgrade my equipment since this has become more than just a casual hobby (much to my wallets chagrin). I'm upgrading my current Oban AT-3400 for something more robust. I'm looking at a weight with flash to be around 21-22 lbs. I see many manufacturers using standardized max load ratings like 17 lbs, 26 lbs, 33 lbs, etc. My question is with my set up being heavy (gimbal head, super telephoto, pro-body and flash), at what height is the manufacturers weight determined?

Are they rating it at full extension? Center column fully extended or at the base?

Is there a weight tolerance one should consider to add to their rigs total weight in order to be safe?

I ask this as Im watching some used Gitzos on eBay. Aside from worrying about the constant shilling practices allowed to run rampant there (set controls by monitoring many of the same type and seeing the price range they sell at), Im trying to determine if I should get one rated for higher than 26 lbs. The style I'm looking for is one without a center column but realizing as I evolve into this more, I don't want to limit myself and then be required to buy another (extensions for macro). I also realize that my Gen 1 lens is likely one of the heaviest and newer ones will be lighter so this may be the highest Ill ever need. I like to buy once rather than twice.

So Im trying to rationalize this but want stability to be paramount. I do carry my rig with me as I travel, so it needs to fit in a suitcase but not a backpack.

So if they are rated at full extension, would it be better to consider one with (gain height and make packing easier with more leg extensions) or is the stability for the weight I'm looking at carrying going to suffer (having less leg extensions and no center column= stability). Im 6 feet tall, which is also a consideration.

Thanks for any help. For the record, I'm not partial to any one product- just considering my options. I've based my considerations on the fact I have a very heavy set up and have yet to see it on an extension anywhere here (or Google images).

Thanks for the insight.

-Alex

Tripod load claims are a bit like used car salesmen flaunting their goods...don't trust 'em, for figuring out which product is 'better'.

There is no single test standard, which objectively quantifies load testing claims.

No statement like, "ability to reduce vibration below 0.5% within 1.1 sec." or any other objective statement followed by all manufacturers.
It is rather like audio amplified claims of power output, back in the 1960's...IHF, peak power, RMS, 10% distortion, 1% distortion, 0.1% distortion...claims were all over the map and it was impossible to compare two published figures -- until one independent test agency might perform similar testing on all products.

Plus, even if a tripod 'can hold 20 pounds', there is no indication of resistance to torsional forces like wind blowing on the lever arm created by a telephoto or zoom lens, twisting the rig away from its static aim point! Two tripods with same load claim, one might be horrible against torsional forces.

It depends on the manufacturer. Most will hold more that they say - some a lot more and some only a little.
I have on old Gitzo G1329 Mk2 which is rated at 12 Kilo, fully extended it will support me = 105 Kilos, so that weight rating is pretty meaningless.
The weight you quote for your setup seem a bit high so I assume you are using something like a 600 F4 IS Mk1/400 F2.8 IS Mk1 or an 800 F5.6 + flash etc. I have owned both of the first two lenses and currently use the 800. My tripod of choice is the Gitzo GT3530LS, I have tried a 5 series but it simply wasn't worth the extra weight and cost for the very marginal improvement. The 3530LS is no longer made but the replacement has an even higher weight rating and price!
Basically a 3 series carbon Systematic Gitzo will do all you need and want. The only catch is that if you are much over 6ft tall it may be worth looking at a larger 4 series.
Hope this helps.

Wilt wrote in post #16458603
Tripod load claims are a bit like used car salesmen flaunting their goods...don't trust 'em, for figuring out which product is 'better'.

There is no single test standard, which objectively quantifies load testing claims.

No statement like, "ability to reduce vibration below 0.5% within 1.1 sec." or any other objective statement followed by all manufacturers.
It is rather like audio amplified claims of power output, back in the 1960's...IHF, peak power, RMS, 10% distortion, 1% distortion, 0.1% distortion...claims were all over the map and it was impossible to compare two published figures -- until one independent test agency might perform similar testing on all products.

Plus, even if a tripod 'can hold 20 pounds', there is no indication of resistance to torsional forces like wind blowing on the lever arm created by a telephoto or zoom lens, twisting the rig away from its static aim point! Two tripods with same load claim, one might be horrible against torsional forces.

Excellent analogy. I totally get the amplifier difference especially considering the 1st time I listened to a (what I though) wimpy 50 watt/ channel Conrad-Johnson tube amp through some Klipschorns... I thought my head was going to cave in.

So like contrast claims on TVs- everyone seems to use a different measuring stick. So I might as well just stick to brands that have excellent followings here like Gitzo since I have yet to hear of a complaint other than price.

Only thing I'm not quite up on here is what we call the Land Rover affect in my other hobby. Some feel the more they spend- the better the product is even if their not happy with the issues. They will justify the cost. Glad to hear this doesn't necessarily seem to be the case with camera equipment.

johnf3f wrote in post #16459081
It depends on the manufacturer. Most will hold more that they say - some a lot more and some only a little.
I have on old Gitzo G1329 Mk2 which is rated at 12 Kilo, fully extended it will support me = 105 Kilos, so that weight rating is pretty meaningless.
The weight you quote for your setup seem a bit high so I assume you are using something like a 600 F4 IS Mk1/400 F2.8 IS Mk1 or an 800 F5.6 + flash etc. I have owned both of the first two lenses and currently use the 800. My tripod of choice is the Gitzo GT3530LS, I have tried a 5 series but it simply wasn't worth the extra weight and cost for the very marginal improvement. The 3530LS is no longer made but the replacement has an even higher weight rating and price!
Basically a 3 series carbon Systematic Gitzo will do all you need and want. The only catch is that if you are much over 6ft tall it may be worth looking at a larger 4 series.
Hope this helps.

Wow! Thats some crazy strong Gitzo. Looking at some used G1325 Mk2 currently so I think they should be sufficient. The 3 series would be the best but uncertain if I could swing that ($$). I picked up a used Wimberley GH-200 so I need to make sure I don't run the bank dry prior to the season of giving LOL

I will broaden my focus for 3 and 4 series though- Just might find someone unloading one to have money to buy presents with LOL

You nailed it on the lens- 400 2.8 IS 1st Gen. Not quite the best bird lens but then again, it can be used as a sporting lens too so this way I can try different passions and see where my shutter leads me. Besides- with the right set up- I should be able to negate some of the issues with my 1.4X and get a little close to the action and still have a respectable aperture

So I would assume the better manufacturers are more conservative with their weight load bearing measurements where as the less costly tripod companies tend to me more aggressive. May come down to just checking the tubes dimensions. Funny how some claim to carry the same weight utilizing the same materials yet their diameters of their leg sections are quite different.

Thanks for the help. I'm learning all the time.

There's going to be a difference in what it can hold, and what it can support competently. It may well be able to hold 25lbs, but it might shake like crazy and be quite unstable with that load.

I can tell you that my current Sirui is rated for something like 50lbs, yet I can do pull ups from the spider at full extension (180lbs).

Ultimately it comes down to compromises. You can get something cheap (2-300ish) that will work but be heavy and possibly cumbersome, or you can spend some more and get a heavy duty carbon tripod that will be lighter but will lighten your wallet an equal amount.

Offroad Canon Junkie wrote in post #16459162
...............
So I would assume the better manufacturers are more conservative with their weight load bearing measurements where as the less costly tripod companies tend to me more aggressive. May come down to just checking the tubes dimensions. Funny how some claim to carry the same weight utilizing the same materials yet their diameters of their leg sections are quite different.

Thanks for the help. I'm learning all the time.

IIRC Really Right Stuff has a few videos on their blog about tripod weight ratings and picking the right sized tripod.

Scatterbrained wrote in post #16459191
There's going to be a difference in what it can hold, and what it can support competently. It may well be able to hold 25lbs, but it might shake like crazy and be quite unstable with that load.

I can tell you that my current Sirui is rated for something like 50lbs, yet I can do pull ups from the spider at full extension (180lbs).

Ultimately it comes down to compromises. You can get something cheap (2-300ish) that will work but be heavy and possibly cumbersome, or you can spend some more and get a heavy duty carbon tripod that will be lighter but will lighten your wallet an equal amount.

Thats funny- get a couple of reps in while waiting for the birds to return to the nest

I completely forgot my monopod is a Sirui. Pretty stout for being rated at 17 lbs and it held my 400 with gripped 60D. I'll look into their options as well. Also looked at Feisol. 38mm legs!

Scatterbrained wrote in post #16459195
IIRC Really Right Stuff has a few videos on their blog about tripod weight ratings and picking the right sized tripod.

Ill look that up- thanks

different forces apply on tripod legs at different positions
when the legs are in the standard position (small angle, more height), the primary force applying on the legs is compression, which most materials withstand with ease. thats why it may seem that the tripod is much sturdier than the actual rating

however, the more you spread the tripods legs, different force begin to apply, most notably bending.
the problem with tripod legs, which are basically tubes, is that when bent beyon a certain point (which may differ from one material to the other) the tube will simply collapse (in case of aluminum) or snap (in case of carbon)

my understanding is that the manufacturers rate their tripods max load assuming the worst case scenario, which is, widest legs spread / lowest position. the actual snapping point may be as far as 50-100% above the official max load rating.

hope that helps

All of these comments are why I chose a tripod with a listed spec at least double what I estimated my rig to be. My last tripod was meant for my 500 f4 II and 1Dx. As you can imagine I was a bit cautious about my choice. Generally I go with BH's accessory recommendations and they suggested a particular high dollar carbon tripod. When it came in I looked at it and thought "I wouldn't put a gopro on this!" So I called to ask WTF? The guy I got on the line was great and said it was a horrible mistake and to try an aluminum Induro 8M AT413. it was around $250 and rated for 44lbs. I kinda argued with him a bit til he explained he had one of them for his big lenses (which may have been a line of BS) and to at least have a look. Glad I took his advice cause this thing arrived and made some of my Sachtler and Manfrotto video tripods look like toys. It's not that heavy at 7lbs but is rock solid. The legs lock confidently. And the torsional resistance is better than my $1800 Sachtler. Its not even a concern whether it's going to hold the rig steady. And the price while a bit disconcerting at first (gonna hold $17k of gear with a $250 tripod?? Say whaaaat?) has really turned me on to Induro. I bought one of their hi-hat tripods too and I think I could use it to change a tire on a truck!! Ok...not really but it's rated for 165 lbs!! No issues holding my broadcast camcorder or my big lenses when I need to get them low to the ground.

airdima wrote in post #16460120
different forces apply on tripod legs at different positions
when the legs are in the standard position (small angle, more height), the primary force applying on the legs is compression, which most materials withstand with ease. thats why it may seem that the tripod is much sturdier than the actual rating

however, the more you spread the tripods legs, different force begin to apply, most notably bending.
the problem with tripod legs, which are basically tubes, is that when bent beyon a certain point (which may differ from one material to the other) the tube will simply collapse (in case of aluminum) or snap (in case of carbon)

my understanding is that the manufacturers rate their tripods max load assuming the worst case scenario, which is, widest legs spread / lowest position. the actual snapping point may be as far as 50-100% above the official max load rating.

hope that helps

Great info. This may mean I have hope for at least using my Oban for the studio type shots.

yipDog Studios wrote in post #16460194
All of these comments are why I chose a tripod with a listed spec at least double what I estimated my rig to be. My last tripod was meant for my 500 f4 II and 1Dx. As you can imagine I was a bit cautious about my choice. Generally I go with BH's accessory recommendations and they suggested a particular high dollar carbon tripod. When it came in I looked at it and thought "I wouldn't put a gopro on this!" So I called to ask WTF? The guy I got on the line was great and said it was a horrible mistake and to try an aluminum Induro 8M AT413. it was around $250 and rated for 44lbs. I kinda argued with him a bit til he explained he had one of them for his big lenses (which may have been a line of BS) and to at least have a look. Glad I took his advice cause this thing arrived and made some of my Sachtler and Manfrotto video tripods look like toys. It's not that heavy at 7lbs but is rock solid. The legs lock confidently. And the torsional resistance is better than my $1800 Sachtler. Its not even a concern whether it's going to hold the rig steady. And the price while a bit disconcerting at first (gonna hold $17k of gear with a $250 tripod?? Say whaaaat?) has really turned me on to Induro. I bought one of their hi-hat tripods too and I think I could use it to change a tire on a truck!! Ok...not really but it's rated for 165 lbs!! No issues holding my broadcast camcorder or my big lenses when I need to get them low to the ground.

Ive heard great things about Induro/ Benro. In fact one of the highest rated tripods through B&H is one of the cheapest and its a Benro. The fact is, once you look at middle of the road high end units, your at the premium on the low cost units and their rated, like you said- 39-44 lbs. While I cringe at spending this much on a tripod, I do have some expensive gear so I want to be careful. I also like to find bargins so I grabbed my gimbal used so the money saved will allow for a better tripod

Great insight and help

Wow - just looked up that Induro 8M AT413. If only it was 5" shorter folded. That would have been the ticket. Maybe the AT313 might fit on an angle...Going to measure my suitcase

Offroad

Wow! Thats some crazy strong Gitzo. Looking at some used G1325 Mk2 currently so I think they should be sufficient. The 3 series would be the best but uncertain if I could swing that ($$). I picked up a used Wimberley GH-200 so I need to make sure I dont run the bank dry prior to the season of giving LOL

I will broaden my focus for 3 and 4 series though- Just might find someone unloading one to have money to buy presents with LOL

You nailed it on the lens- 400 2.8 IS 1st Gen. Not quite the best bird lens but then again, it can be used as a sporting lens too so this way I can try different passions and see where my shutter leads me. Besides- with the right set up- I should be able to negate some of the issues with my 1.4X and get a little close to the action and still have a respectable aperture

So I would assume the better manufacturers are more conservative with their weight load bearing measurements where as the less costly tripod companies tend to me more aggressive. May come down to just checking the tubes dimensions. Funny how some claim to carry the same weight utilizing the same materials yet their diameters of their leg sections are quite different.

Thanks for the help. Im learning all the time. [/QUOTE wrote:
=Offroad

Wow! Thats some crazy strong Gitzo. Looking at some used G1325 Mk2 currently so I think they should be sufficient. The 3 series would be the best but uncertain if I could swing that ($$). I picked up a used Wimberley GH-200 so I need to make sure I don't run the bank dry prior to the season of giving LOL

I will broaden my focus for 3 and 4 series though- Just might find someone unloading one to have money to buy presents with LOL

You nailed it on the lens- 400 2.8 IS 1st Gen. Not quite the best bird lens but then again, it can be used as a sporting lens too so this way I can try different passions and see where my shutter leads me. Besides- with the right set up- I should be able to negate some of the issues with my 1.4X and get a little close to the action and still have a respectable aperture

So I would assume the better manufacturers are more conservative with their weight load bearing measurements where as the less costly tripod companies tend to me more aggressive. May come down to just checking the tubes dimensions. Funny how some claim to carry the same weight utilizing the same materials yet their diameters of their leg sections are quite different.

Thanks for the help. I'm learning all the time.

You mention the Gitzo 1325 3 series - that has the same (except for length) as my Gitzo G1329 - so no worries there.
Scatterbrained mentioned the Sirui products, I don't have one of their tripods but I do have a P424 mono pod and it is a very good piece of kit. I think one of their R series should do a good job though I have not tried one personally. Have a look here ;
http://www.siruicanada​.com/tripod_r.htm

Whichever you decide on I would suggest a model that does not have a center column (like a Gitzo Systematic) as this style of tripod is lighter and more rigid.
Happy hunting!

johnf3f wrote in post #16460260
Whichever you decide on I would suggest a model that does not have a center column (like a Gitzo Systematic) as this style of tripod is lighter and more rigid.

This is correct, center columns can reduce stability. Most tripods that are sold without center columns will accommodate an accessory center column if you need one. I sometimes use a center column on my Gitzo systematic.

With modern tripods, there's very little if any performance difference between 3 and 4 leg section models. I use both myself and like the 3 leg section models but if the tripod is to be taken on a plane I get a 4 leg section version and have no qualms about stability. Yes, leg sections with bigger diameters make you feel better but it doesn't necessarily correlate with extra sturdiness. The same for 8x and 6x layers in the carbon fiber construction. I'm a fan of overkill when it comes to tripods so I always like to buy a model that's way more than I need, but my thinking is you never know what you might get to put on top of it.

If you live in the US and you're thinking about getting a new Gitzo December/January is the best time to buy as the big NYC stores like B&H run sales with Gitzo coupons. Just know that Gitzo service isn't that great, in particular their spare parts division. Unfortunately I can attest to just how bad they are.

Induro/Benro and Feisol are popular value brands. The Benro brands (there are several) are made in mainland China and the Feisols come from Taiwan. Induro/Benro tripods are Gitzo copies and some parts are interchangeable; I have Benro parts on my Gitzo and Gitzo parts on my Benros. Induro is a slightly upscale Benro sold into the US market, the tripods and parts are generally more expensive than Benro as you're paying for US distribution and marketing. You can also buy Benro here but the US distributors don't carry the best Benro tripods which include Gitzo style systematics like the C4780T which is basically a Gitzo 3 series systematic at a much lower price.

Feisol is a good brand too. Like Benro they are value for money and you should take a look at the CT-3442 which is one of their top sellers. The tripod folds to about 19 inches and weighs less than 2.5lbs and it's a systematic design with an optional center column. I tried one out a couple weeks ago and was impressed with it. If you end up seriously considering this tripod you need to research a ballhead to go on the base because I think the legs fold back over the base to give it that very short folded length.

Offroad Canon Junkie wrote in post #16460230
Wow - just looked up that Induro 8M AT413. If only it was 5" shorter folded. That would have been the ticket. Maybe the AT313 might fit on an angle...Going to measure my suitcase

Get a bigger suit case
I own a Induro AT 413 and I use a Induro Gimble head.
I am 100% satisfied in the Induro products..............​.


PS I use a 100 to 400 is l lens with a tc 1.4 extender 5 d mk 2 gripped

Farmer

johnf3f wrote in post #16460260
You mention the Gitzo 1325 3 series - that has the same (except for length) as my Gitzo G1329 - so no worries there.
Scatterbrained mentioned the Sirui products, I don't have one of their tripods but I do have a P424 mono pod and it is a very good piece of kit. I think one of their R series should do a good job though I have not tried one personally. Have a look here ;
http://www.siruicanada​.com/tripod_r.htm

Whichever you decide on I would suggest a model that does not have a center column (like a Gitzo Systematic) as this style of tripod is lighter and more rigid.
Happy hunting!

I do like the Systematics. The fact the structure relies on only the three tripod legs for height is what I'm after. If I take one with a center column, it would most likely be left at the base for more rigidity.

Ive been impressed with my Sirui stick but doubt it will last holding my set up which is at its max. I should look for one rated higher which I did find only recently. So I guess Ill have two walking sticks

peter_n wrote in post #16460553
This is correct, center columns can reduce stability. Most tripods that are sold without center columns will accommodate an accessory center column if you need one. I sometimes use a center column on my Gitzo systematic.

With modern tripods, there's very little if any performance difference between 3 and 4 leg section models. I use both myself and like the 3 leg section models but if the tripod is to be taken on a plane I get a 4 leg section version and have no qualms about stability. Yes, leg sections with bigger diameters make you feel better but it doesn't necessarily correlate with extra sturdiness. The same for 8x and 6x layers in the carbon fiber construction. I'm a fan of overkill when it comes to tripods so I always like to buy a model that's way more than I need, but my thinking is you never know what you might get to put on top of it.

If you live in the US and you're thinking about getting a new Gitzo December/January is the best time to buy as the big NYC stores like B&H run sales with Gitzo coupons. Just know that Gitzo service isn't that great, in particular their spare parts division. Unfortunately I can attest to just how bad they are.

Induro/Benro and Feisol are popular value brands. The Benro brands (there are several) are made in mainland China and the Feisols come from Taiwan. Induro/Benro tripods are Gitzo copies and some parts are interchangeable; I have Benro parts on my Gitzo and Gitzo parts on my Benros. Induro is a slightly upscale Benro sold into the US market, the tripods and parts are generally more expensive than Benro as you're paying for US distribution and marketing. You can also buy Benro here but the US distributors don't carry the best Benro tripods which include Gitzo style systematics like the C4780T which is basically a Gitzo 3 series systematic at a much lower price.

Feisol is a good brand too. Like Benro they are value for money and you should take a look at the CT-3442 which is one of their top sellers. The tripod folds to about 19 inches and weighs less than 2.5lbs and it's a systematic design with an optional center column. I tried one out a couple weeks ago and was impressed with it. If you end up seriously considering this tripod you need to research a ballhead to go on the base because I think the legs fold back over the base to give it that very short folded length.

Ive been really reading up on those Induros. Very impressive indeed. I have a little hope on scoring a Gitzos but at least I'm not looking to go beyond my goal with the Induros being so much cheaper. Largest issue is just that- size. My suitcases are able to carry the AT313 but that 413 wont make it. I travel internationally and the one SKB i-Series case I use is at the exact limit of 62" (actually its 62.25" but so far no ones complained since its shorter than my beat up Samsonite)

Never heard of Gitzo coupons but its doubtful I could afford one new, even with a coupon. Ive taken a little too much out of the cookie jar this year with my lens and now Wimberley gimbal but would like to shoot with the set up.

farmer1957 wrote in post #16461200
Get a bigger suit case
I own a Induro AT 413 and I use a Induro Gimble head.
I am 100% satisfied in the Induro products..............​.


PS I use a 100 to 400 is l lens with a tc 1.4 extender 5 d mk 2 gripped

Farmer

I'm really hoping to make the AT313 to fit but would rather have the beefier AT413. Would you have the diameter of the whole assembly when its folded. I work better when i have a 3D image to consider.

Still have a glimmer of hope on a used Gitzo but its fading...