Evan wrote in post #16467611
You seem to think that it is a competition. Far from it, I have completely acknowledged Tc's posts (completely valid studies) in my third response, and I have understood this entire time that banding does have an effect on the birds. We just have a slightly different stance on
how much the banding effects the birds. But what I don't think you have grasped from what I have said previously, is that the banding of a small percentage of a population benefits the population greater than if you hadn't banded any birds within the said population. I used the example of Red-tailed Hawks and wind turbines to help illustrate this point.
But finally to reiterate my point one final time. Please contact your local Audubon to ask about banding field trips in your area. To take a stance on a subject as debated as this one, yet refusing to at least observe the practice of banding, asking questions, and actually doing it yourself instead of chair warring, seems to me to be a very close minded approach. I developed my opinion after hundreds of hours of participating in banding, thousands of hours of observation over a decade, and many, many questions answered from experts. Only then have I come to the opinions I have today.
Best of luck,
Evan
Tc, thanks for a great post, a great shot it is in so many ways!
Evan
I have no thoughts of any competition. I only wish to point out to you and any bander’s who think that banding is harmless to the birds that are banded is not harmless, actually is harmful.
First of all, your statement that banding takes two minutes or less, well perhaps the installation of a band takes only two minutes is true, though the entire process takes far longer. Not knowing much about the " Boom Canon" netting you mentioned, which in itself cannot be harmless, at the very least, that type of capture would scare the crap out of all birds involved, however I will not address that procedure since I know little of it. When birds are banded, using a mist net, the net is setup in a known flyway. Once set it is usually checked every 20 – 30 minutes, there are no people there the entire time, I would guess due to capturing less birds, so the captured bird is caught in a net, (usually multiple nets are set) uselessly struggling until one of us “smart” Humans comes along, takes it out of the net, which are usually volunteers who are not registered banders stick the bird in a box or even a used can, whatever is present. Then taken to the banding station, once again, trying for the freedom that we take for granted. The bird is weighed, by placing the bird face down in a container, cans work well from what I have read. Why, if they were face up, they would try to fly off and we can’t have that, the bird MUST be banded. Once weighed, it is stretched out for proper measurements, wings stretched out, then banded, this entire process usually lasts 0 – 30 minutes, depends on how long the bird has been in the mist net until someone comes by and untangles it from the net that it has hopelessly been struggling to get out of. Once banded, a picture is usually taken, almost every picture I have seen of a just banded bird shows a person holding the bird by the wingtips while another takes a picture, I would think that holding like that places weight on fragile wing bones that are not designed for such weight on the wings in that manner. The Volunteers in the pictures I have seen always have a big smile with the captured scared bird that has just been "banded" I have gotten all of this information from one of the big bird magazines, an article that was all about the banding process, the picture taken was of a beautiful Kestrel, once again, held by its outstretched wingtips end to end by a young birder who happened to have an article at the time every month as he traveled around writing of his birding travels, perhaps you have seen that same article and picture or maybe it rings a bell. My point here is that banding takes far longer than the two minutes you mention and it is indeed not a good experience for every bird captured then finally banded. Is there anything that I have stated above that is incorrect? As any bird photographer knows, most of the time pointing a camera at a bird usually does one thing, the bird fly off, fast.
As far as the small percentage banded, well that is a poor example, of course the percentage is very low, there are millions of birds, luckily for them, banders simply cannot capture every one. I once read in a bird-serve report of a very well known, honorable long time bander on the Eastern Shore of Va. Who had found a mixed colony of Pelicans and Terns, the colony was on the beach, this bander stated that he had banded 95% of the entire colony. Can you possibly imagine all of the colonies adults birds trying to stop that process, useless off course as we Humans are smarter than them and of course they are scared of us. 95%! This is a fact, if you need, I will go back and find that post. So much for your statement about juvenile birds not getting banded. My reply to that post generated many nasty Emails in which I was cussed out in most all of them
Tc’s statements and quotes should illustrate to you the harm full effects of banding on just those He mentioned.
Bander’s will and do band ANY bird they capture, whether or not it already has a band, just slap on another. In the case of Tc’s shot, how can you possibly think that upper band, which is put there for the sole reason of one of us smart Humans to see it better, your words. Imagine that bird resting, the tab must be exposing the inner feather layers and interrupt the layers of feathers that are used to keep it warm or cool. That does not look like a flexible tab to me and cannot be anything but uncomfortable, once again, the bird can’t do anything about it.
Every time I have this type of conversation I always ask, in this case you. Why don’t you try a nylon, aluminum, steel, whatever band on yourself, you can never take it off, ever. Then think about getting stuck in a net that stops you very quickly, untangled, stuffed head first into a container, weighed, having your legs and arms spread out, measured then have a thing put on your leg that will always be there. I will mention one good thing I know of. There is a Professor from a Virginia College, that I have exchanged this type of conversation with, who put a tracker on a special, uncommon, threatened bird, made some fantastic discoveries that helped this birds, a rarer threatened bird, when the trackers life was over, he went to the island the bird was known to be on found it after He had waited for several days and removed the spent tracker, an amazing man. Bands are usually never removed. Now go to the Government site, Fish and Wildlife I think, the same bunch that destroys Eagles nests for our protection, that is in charge of banding, read the death numbers of trapped birds that die during the process, percentage wise may be low but the numbers are in the thousands, thousands of birds die every year due to our smarter than them activities. Banding is done daily, all across the country, common or uncommon birds, all are banded. It is a damn shame really. Do you ever wonder why bird fly off so quickly when one of use smart humans approach, especially when we are pointing a camera at them?
I would also like to point out, How many times have we heard of our smart Human ideas that we decide is better for the life of any bird, animal, waterway, whatever that we decide is for the "Good" of whatever it may be only to find out later that our smarter than that dumb animal has gone terribly wrong and millions of dollars are spent trying to undo what has been done. Since we cannot communicate with birds, how is it possible that we, (You) know better than the bird what is good or bad for it. Reading all of the opposing replies above should at least make you think that banding may, just possibly be a bad thing. You should know for yourself the complex social lives of all birds. Of course they are not as intelligent as we are but they are quite smart and survive outdoors their entire lives, something none of us could do.
Now, like I said earlier, this point is never brought back up. Lets us see you put a band on, to scale on your leg for one month and tell me how it does not bother you, just one month, not for life. I would bet that you would not be able to say that it has caused you no discomfort to start.
We are lucky to live where we can agree to disagree without repercussion, I hope between me and any others here who all have valid points will open your eyes and change your mind on what you think is a good thing, banding is out of control and needs to be regulated far more than it is. I will never go to any banding site for any reason as it would not likely go well. I belong to Audubon but will not reins now. I am not "chair warring", funny term you have used, simply stating my opinions and opposition to banding birds of any size as it is done now. Are there good things that come from banding, likely yes but this bird of Tc's cannot be one of them, I cannot understand how you can defend the upper band, do "it can be seen easier or more clearly"
Good Luck to you, I hope you can open and change your mind.
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