Can prospective clients really differentiate between quality?

soupcxan wrote in post #16473329
It doesn't matter if clients can tell the difference between quality results.

It does matter if you can convince clients of the difference in quality in your results.

If you have to convince someone of the value you have placed on your own work you are doing something wrong.... or you have overvalued your work.

Some folks never notice CA or noise until it's pointed out to them. Showing a client the difference between a clean image and a noisy or CA infested image would be what soupcxan was talking about I assume.

I've been mulling this comment of mine for a while and I think this could be a good thread to place it.
In a previous life, I was a reporter, in the good days of print, and I was thinking about jumping the fence and setting up my PR consulting shop. Going pro, if you will. Trying to create my business plan, I talked to other consultants about how they figured out their daily rate. One of them told me, quite honestly, "I don't get hired despite my very high rate. I'm hired because of it..."

It's the Grey Goose vodka principle. That liquor is marginally better than the market leader Absolut. Yet, the French vodka was able to carve a piece of the market for itself just by setting a high price point.

Moral of the story: the customer doesn't know, nor care, about quality. It's only a matter of perception.

M_Six wrote in post #16473450
Some folks never notice CA or noise until it's pointed out to them. Showing a client the difference between a clean image and a noisy or CA infested image would be what soupcxan was talking about I assume.

And then screw yourself when you produce an image with CA or noise. Have fun explaining that one.

cdifoto wrote in post #16473501
And then screw yourself when you produce an image with CA or noise. Have fun explaining that one.

The goal is to not produce such images. Or at least don't show them to clients.

M_Six wrote in post #16473511
The goal is to not produce such images. Or at least don't show them to clients.

Noise and CA happens. Even when you're good, and sometimes intentionally.

There are thought photons that sleet through the universe and occasionally hit you at just the right angle and just the right way and POWW an idea forms.

You are selling to the wrong market. You are selling to the customer expecting them to be as discriminating as you are as a photographer. You have years of experience, know what makes a good photo and shed loads about what makes a bad photo. They don't.

Think about when your friends show you wedding albums by other photogs. You ooh and ahh with comments like "they really captured the moment", "the dress is amazing", "everyone looks so happy". And they smile and say yes, they are happy with the album, and what you really want to say, no, scream is how rubbish it is. But if you say that, and then show them why, they will never look at photos the same again, they will become more discriminating and you will have lost friends as YOU ruined their wedding album for them.

Don't expect your customers to know anything about what makes a good photo above "we can see smiling people in the photo", it's harder when they do... Which is why cheap photogs exist, people aren't looking for the perfectly constructed un-critiquable photo, they want passable photos that remind them of their day, who was there and how great they looked.

The only way of being exposed to a more discriminating couple is price yourself into that market. If you price yourself higher you will move into the market where people have the time to look at art and have spent the time learning to look at things rather than worrying about this months rent/car payment. This is a generalisation, it will not be true of everyone but enough of the market to make it useful.

Anyway just my 2p worth.

Best regards and good luck with whatever you do.

BearSummer (who now photographs buildings cos they don't complain I made them look fat)

M_Six wrote in post #16473450
Some folks never notice CA or noise until it's pointed out to them. Showing a client the difference between a clean image and a noisy or CA infested image would be what soupcxan was talking about I assume.

I might be way off; but that sounds like the advice of someone who doesn't sell photo's professionally.

CA and noise are about numbers 99 and 100 in the important stuff in a photo to a customer.

All the usual stuff that makes a good photo (lighting and composition/posing) sit right behind, does this flatter the subject.

You can take the most skillful gorgeous photograph of someone and they'll reject it because they 'don't like the way their chin looks' or they've got 'fat arms'. Commercially, you have to correct those issues before proofing, and you won't see them whilst you're looking for CA or noise.

Phil V wrote in post #16475901
I might be way off; but that sounds like the advice of someone who doesn't sell photo's professionally.

CA and noise are about numbers 99 and 100 in the important stuff in a photo to a customer.

All the usual stuff that makes a good photo (lighting and composition/posing) sit right behind, does this flatter the subject.

You can take the most skillful gorgeous photograph of someone and they'll reject it because they 'don't like the way their chin looks' or they've got 'fat arms'. Commercially, you have to correct those issues before proofing, and you won't see them whilst you're looking for CA or noise.

You're right, I don't sell photos. And your point is well taken, as is cdifoto's. I wasn't implying that CA and noise issues are the most important things because from what I've seen hanging on office walls, they're barely a concern. But those things are what jumps out at me when I'm looking at "professional" photos. When I see purple tree branches, I cringe. And the photos I spoke of earlier were not portraits. They were landscapes or architectural images. I know in portraits or wedding images or anything with people as the subject that the clients will look at the people and see a good photo or not, regardless of the branches in the background.

And I should also be applying Thumper's Rule here. Probably not good policy to speak poorly of another photog's work to a potential client.

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #16473356
If you have to convince someone of the value you have placed on your own work you are doing something wrong.... or you have overvalued your work.

Or he is a great salesman, not just a great photographer. It's takes both skills to be successful.

Hogloff wrote in post #16476622
Or he is a great salesman, not just a great photographer. It's takes both skills to be successful.

In that case they would be a great salesman and poor photographer. If you have a need to convince everyone of the value of your work then the value isn't self evident. In which case you are much more a salesman than you are a photographer.

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #16477203
In that case they would be a great salesman and poor photographer. If you have a need to convince everyone of the value of your work then the value isn't self evident. In which case you are much more a salesman than you are a photographer.

Yah I've never had to convince someone of my quality but most people I know/engage with/live around basically only make half of my base fee in a week so it's only a tough sell in absolute terms. It's hard to spend $600 on portraits if it takes several months to save it up. It doesn't matter if I'm less expensive than others, I'm still two used car payments or a month's rent. Median HOUSEHOLD income here being 36K annually.

Yeah, there are two things which are quite different.

1) Convincing someone to buy.
2) Convincing someone of your quality (ultimately value).

The first being a very different beast to the second.

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #16477203
In that case they would be a great salesman and poor photographer. If you have a need to convince everyone of the value of your work then the value isn't self evident. In which case you are much more a salesman than you are a photographer.

Need to be both in order to be seccessful. There are many great photographers, but would starve if they actually had to sell their work to feed themselves.

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #16477311
Yeah, there are two things which are quite different.

1) Convincing someone to buy.
2) Convincing someone of your quality (ultimately value).

The first being a very different beast to the second.

Well stated.