"Profiling" monolights

I'm trying to get the WB 'right' for my studio lights and having a bit of a hard time. Whenever I use a colour target/grey card, I find the WB goes too much to the green side for my liking when using the WB dropper to adjust the temperature in my RAW processor. If I use the Flash (or Daylight) preset in the RAW processor the image doesn't always look 'nice': it's quite warm, although that certainly gets it out of the green and pushes it towards the magenta. Now, I don't know if that's the way it's supposed to be: warm. Guess what I really want is to find the fundamental value, the standard if you will, from which I can then creatively deviate.

I've shot a grey card in an attempt to set a custom value for the camera. Mind, my camera is normally set to use Daylight. I only change its WB setting when shooting under fluorescent lighting.

What would be the best approach for finding and setting that 'standard'?

TIA

After setting the WB, have you checked the RGB values of the target to see if they are even?

Alveric wrote in post #16471015
I'm trying to get the WB 'right' for my studio lights and having a bit of a hard time. Whenever I use a colour target/grey card, I find the WB goes too much to the green side for my liking when using the WB dropper to adjust the temperature in my RAW processor. If I use the Flash (or Daylight) preset in the RAW processor the image doesn't always look 'nice': it's quite warm, although that certainly gets it out of the green and pushes it towards the magenta. Now, I don't know if that's the way it's supposed to be: warm. Guess what I really want is to find the fundamental value, the standard if you will, from which I can then creatively deviate.

I've shot a grey card in an attempt to set a custom value for the camera. Mind, my camera is normally set to use Daylight. I only change its WB setting when shooting under fluorescent lighting.

What would be the best approach for finding and setting that 'standard'?

TIA

Grey Cards are not meant for color balancing, they are for using to measure density, hence the 18% terminology..... Typically those cards are cheap (cost about $10) and have no basis on proper neutrality. I recommend one of the following for actual color balance:

• MacBeth Color Checker :: http://www.adorama.com​/GHCCC.html
• X-Rite Custom GreyCard Scale :: http://www.adorama.com​/GHCCCG.html
• WhiBal G7 :: http://www.adorama.com​/WBWB7SC.html

Scatterbrained wrote in post #16471021
After setting the WB, have you checked the RGB values of the target to see if they are even?

They are but for decimals.

Here:

This is before the correction. The values (in LR, as I also use C1 Pro and they are not consistent in their scales) are: Temp = 4850 / Tint = +1. The camera had been set to Daylight WB.

This is after the correction. Values are: Temp = 5200 / Tint = -8. Daylight WB in camera. Does this look too green to you?


Now, setting the camera to a custom temperature using the frame linked below, yields the following results:

Before correcting. Values: Temp = 5250 / Tint = -10.

After correcting. Values: Temp = 5200 / Tint = -10.

Again, are the last two images too green? I did note that the RGB values are all the same in the last, corrected in LR, shot.

They don't look green to me. When's the last time you calibrated the monitor?

Within the month. Weird, I ordered some prints and when I got them they all seemed to me they had a green cast. Either I'm being thrown by simultaneous contrast or my eyes are mutated.

I wonder if it's my Spyder3 that needs replacement. I heard that colorimeters last only a few years (or is that a Datacolor's marketing ploy?).

Alveric wrote in post #16472138
Within the month. Weird, I ordered some prints and when I got them they all seemed to me they had a green cast. Either I'm being thrown by simultaneous contrast or my eyes are mutated.

I wonder if it's my Spyder3 that needs replacement. I heard that colorimeters last only a few years (or is that a Datacolor's marketing ploy?).

When you convert the image on the screen to B&W does the green go away?

Oh, yeah.

Neat trick; woulda never thought of that. So, if it's colour-cast-less grey, I'm OK, right?

Do the skin tones look natural to you in this photograph?

Alveric wrote in post #16472153
Oh, yeah.

Neat trick; woulda never thought of that. So, if it's colour-cast-less grey, I'm OK, right?

Well, if you convert the image to B&W and the cast remains, you know it's likely a monitor profile or an external color cast, possibly room lighting.

Alveric wrote in post #16472160
Do the skin tones look natural to you in this photograph?

Well they don't look too green to me, if that's what you're asking.

LOL. Yeah, the yellowish colour in the background plays tricks with the contrast.

One more question if you mind not, as I really want to stop worrying about this problem.

These three photos have the different values I'm trying to reconcile. The first one is As Shot (never mind the numeric values, because LR reports 4850/+1 whereas C1 Pro says it's 5014/-1.6), the second one has been corrected by clicking on the E2 grey patch, and the last one is C1's Flash value. Which one looks better, i.e. with more natural skin tones vs sallow skin?

The Loft Studios wrote in post #16471070
Grey Cards are not meant for color balancing, they are for using to measure density, hence the 18% terminology.....

This isn't necessarily true. For example, the Kodak 18% gray card (with a 90% - white - on the reverse) is guaranteed by Kodak to be neutral for use as a color reference. The Kodak card has been available for decades.

Alveric wrote in post #16471073
They are but for decimals.

Here:

This is before the correction. The values (in LR, as I also use C1 Pro and they are not consistent in their scales) are: Temp = 4850 / Tint = +1. The camera had been set to Daylight WB.

This is after the correction. Values are: Temp = 5200 / Tint = -8. Daylight WB in camera. Does this look too green to you?


Now, setting the camera to a custom temperature using the frame linked below, yields the following results:

Before correcting. Values: Temp = 5250 / Tint = -10.

After correcting. Values: Temp = 5200 / Tint = -10.

Again, are the last two images too green? I did note that the RGB values are all the same in the last, corrected in LR, shot.

Try shooting the card again and tilt it downward slightly. If you look closely (especially on the sides) you can see straight on glare from your light(s). You will get better and slightly more accurate results when the glare in taken away

SkipD wrote in post #16472219
This isn't necessarily true. For example, the Kodak 18% gray card (with a 90% - white - on the reverse) is guaranteed by Kodak to be neutral for use as a color reference. The Kodak card has been available for decades.

True and I've owned several of them over the last 20 years (still have my very first one) and the last one I bought was about 6-7 years ago and everyone of them have a slightly different color cast to them (about 5 in all)….. Now I've never measured the white side (90% of the area had writing on it), and have never had a need to since it was all about the 18% grey.

Two issues might be the problem: you grey card isn't truly 'neutral', your monitor is not truly 'neutral'.

Kodak grey card, Whibal, Photovision, EZ Balance, ColorChecker, and Douglas are all 'neutral'. Of these, all can be used for measuring exposure -- except for the light toned Whibal.

If you neutralize during postprocessing using LR, your image on the monitor ought to end up neutral, unless your monitor is improperly adjusted and not showing neutral grey as neutral! Bad color calibration tweaks can also throw things off, even if the monitor itself is fine.

This is a perfectly neutral (128-128-128) color that should allow you to assess your monitor.