Photoshop Layers Question

I use Photoshop extensively for editing and I always work with adjustment layers and masks but I am confused about one thing.

As I understand it one of the biggest benefits of working with layers is the ability to go back a re-edit your adjustments. Where I have a problem is when it is time to sharpen or similar. I create a new layer flat mask (ctrl+alt+shift+E) to be my sharpen layer but at that point all the layers below are pretty well useless.

Am I missing something?

The only thing the unflattened layers lack is the sharpening, everything else is as it was. Whether you consider that's a valid reason to keep them is a question only you can answer.

I tend to sharpen using a photoshop plug-in which is a three stage process and I don't keep any of my working layers. My thinking is that if I need to, I can always recreate the image from square one as I always save the unprocessed out-of-camera original.

I tend to make an adjustment layer and when my adjustment is to my likeing I flatten. I don't plan to go back and tweak an image. If I don't like what I end up with I start over. I have given some thought to working with smart objects and keeping my adjustments but have not changed my work flow yet.

Using smart filters on your base layer works well. Do all your adjustment layers, then click on your base layer and convert for smart filters. Then when you apply your unsharp mask (or whatever you do), the sharpening will remain adjustable. The other advantage to doing it like that is the built-in mask that comes with smart filters. You can mask out areas where the sharpening exacerbated noise (for instance).

I create a stamp of the layers and apply the sharpening to it.

The "layers below" are useless if they're gone & I want to do something else with the image. "Film" is cheap & so is storage media, so I keep the TIFF with layers. What isn't cheap is time & I don't want to have to re-edit the RAW file.

kjonnnn wrote in post #16472802
I would think that sharpening would be the absolute last thing you do so there is no need to go back and make a readjustment. If you do, just delete that merged layer and make a new one after youve changed your adjustments. It only takes half a second to hit all 4 keys again.

If I add a High Pass sharpen to an image this is what I do. I merge the layers to create the layer that the HP Filter is applied to but leave the other layers underneath as is. Invariably there will be some layer masking involved as well. If I find I need to make a change then it is easy enough to make another combined layer to apply the filter to, and then just copy the layer mask over. Job done. Works just as well with USM with edge masking. I often find that I use the opacity slider to fine tune the levels of sharpening applied as well. I guess you could flatten the image then duplicate the layer for sharpening, but then you are limited in your options, or you have to go back to the beginning. If you have some complicated layer masks etc then I would rather keep all of that information incase I need to make changes later.

Alan

OK so what I am hearing here is pretty much what I figured. I just wondered if I was somehow missing the big picture. Thanks!

Yea, I'll often go back after a few days/weeks or months for a 'good' shot. So I decide when I'm going to keep everything, but if it is deemed 'good' I certainly keep a file with all the layers. Irecently tweaked some shots for printing that I took over a year ago. The 'tweaks' were large enough that I'm glad I was working on the original rather than a flattened tiff.

But, yes, for sharpening as such you essentially have to flatten in some way IMO. I'm not sure if sharpening is commutative with all the other adjustments, but if I sharpen in PS, it is usually via Nik, so that effectively creates a new flattened layer. So If I change something I have to redo the sharpening.

This is actually why I do my sharpening outside PS although I think that would be effectively similar to creating a flattened smart object.

In your situation, I often turn off adjustment layers I'm not sure about, duplicate the base layer and make it invisible, then Merge Visible, and turn the adjustment layers back on. This allows me to keep a "base" layer unchanged, and continue to modify and add to existing layers. If I am working in 32 bit images (HDR, especially HDR in ACR) I tend to do a general sharpen in ACR before I wind up in PS, where I may use Smart Sharpen (works as Smart Filter) or change modes to 16 bit where I usually use Topaz Detail, both globally and by selection. I always print from the same layered base PSD file, but different sized images can require different treatment, or be a differently presented image completely.

Northwoods Bill, I don't think you are missing anything. Layers are good but not 100% procedural, I think most would consider sharpening to be one of the, if not the, final stage of the retouching workflow.

The high pass method does keep it a bit more procedural but if you do make major changes ie move an object in a layer below it can mess up what is above. You can use your layer masks again though.

Smart Layers and Smart Sharpen are similar to the high pass method in that you have to take a snapshot of your image to apply it but it does retain the advantage of being able to go back and tweak your settings.

The other method I know of is to use the two programs together: LR and PS. Sharpening in LR is procedural if you use it with an adjustment brush and you can reference the photoshop file so whatever edits you make to the original will update automatically. This isn't actually as clunky as it sounds as LR (in my workflow) is often the last step to resize and output the final image.

I'd love to know if there are any better methods than these?

P.S. Also, compositing software like After Effects and Nuke let you keep things procedural but a bit overkill for this issue.

kjonnnn wrote in post #16473217
My option was based on the premise that sharpening is the LAST step you perform. CNTL-ALT-SHFT-E to make your merged layer. CNTL-J to duplicate the layer. Use that layer as your high pass layer. Choose the blend and opacity you want. Done. If you want to make adjustments, delete the merged and high pass layer. Make your adjustments. Remake your merge and high pass layer. Its still a 1 second step, and it does not affect your masks. Save the file, and all your adjustments and masks are intact. But, Im sensing you want to sharpen then go back and make adjustments.

Actually I am not really "planning" on going back to do more work, but I just use the one merged layer when doing a High Pass sharpen. That's the layer the filter is applied to, it matters not if you are looking at a single merged layer under it, or just the original stack. Either way if you have to make a change after the sharpening is applied you still have to update the layer the filter is applied to. The thing is that even with HP Sharpen I will usually use a layer mask with it, along with playing with the opacity to fine tune the effect.

I would never flatten the PSD file, far to often once I think it is done I will look at it a few days/weeks later and notice I missed something. That's when it is handy to be able to go straight back in to fix it. I am an LR user and I would say that less than 10% of images actually need to go to PS. Because of this as some others have said all the final resizing etc is done via LR. I quite like working with Monochromatic images, and actually prefer LR's B&W conversion tools, and have even ended up processing the RAW in LR, sending the image off to PS for some major cloning work, or the improvement of skies (I mostly shoot aviation) by adding a gradient filter. I know that LR will do this, but you cannot mask the subject that way. Once it is finished it then goes back into LR where I will do the mono conversion, usually to a VC. What is great about this is if a change is needed in the original PSD file you then have the choice to work on the original file, which will then update all the VC's you might have, or to work on a copy. The copy has the option to have the LR "edits" applied to it on passing it to PS or not. So many choices it's great, although mostly I'll work on the original file, but that is my choice.

Alan