G2 vs. EOS D30

I am deciding between the G2 and EOS D30, and would like all opinions about differences, particularly regarding quality of picture and range of use. I have been using the Casio QV2000ux, a well-featured but mediocre quality 2.1 megapixel camera for the past year, have not attempted SLR to any great extent before. I am particularly interested in candid and action photos, and take about the same indoors as outdoors (such as sports shots). Any and all comments would be appreciated. Thanks.

Whoa--get ready for some heat on this question! My take, just to pre-empt most replies--these cameras aren't even comparable, other than at the most basic level that they make digital images. I have a G1, much like a G2, and have been struggling over the purchase of a D-30. I know of what I speak.

G1/2: biggest pro is small compact size. This is a quality point and shoot to have with you at all times. Photo quality is OK for webwork, needs luck and great technique to produce high quality images (Many good examples of this, though)
Biggest con--it's a point and shoot. Very limited in "features" compared to even the simplest 35mm SLR.

D-30: biggest pro--those wonderful Canon lenses!! Big and bulky SLR camera with loads of features and controls, silky smooth CMOS sensor, and beautiful colors. Probably the best all round digital camera available today, period.
Biggest con--no flip out LCD to preview photos. And of course, those wonderful, expensive Canon lenses!

cheers,

Thanks Phil. If I am not mistaken, the G2 has at least the ability to manually adjust shutter and aperture within more limited ranges of the EOS D30 (and has a larger aperture setting on all but the (my wife says) prohibitively expensive telephoto lenses, which at least would help me take indoor action shots without breaking the piggy bank (my daughter plays basketball)). It has 400 ISO, which is of some use, but less than the up to 1600 of the EOS D30. What other differences in features do you think are significant between the cameras?

I have to factor in cost. I anticipate spending about 1200-1400 for a G2 with external flash, teleconverter lens, maybe a few other things. I think the EOS d30 cost with quality lens (of at least f/2.8 and flash) is around $3,300 if you shop on the internet. Do you disagree? Have you any indicators that prices will fall in the next six months?

By the way, are your website shots with your G1? Very nice stuff.

In P/S camera you have a system which is fixed in features, which is meant for general photography only and where its parts are custom-matched to the whole system.

This could be either good or bad. A few issues:

P/S CAMERA PROS:

- custom part "fitting" can produce good quality with cheap parts.
- small lens and chip means big DOF (overall sharp photos in low light, too) and sensitive lens
- it's light and unobtrusive
- it's easy to carry
- it's easy to hold steady (9-21mm focal lenght!)
- it's easy to compare photos with other P/S owners - you have identical hardware so there are "less variables".
- you have to be more creative when using limited camera capabilities - learning curve can be fast (depends how much you want to demand from yourself)
- you don't have to think about new lenses all the time

P/S CAMERA CONS:

- you often find that you simply can't take a picture (movement in dark, wrong focal lenght, not sensitive enough, not fast enough to boot and focus)
- your "hobbying" is more limited - not many user choices there
- when you want to upgrade yearly you essentially loose your investment every year.
- you can't do all tricks you read in photography books and learn in net.
- ISO's over default value are very noisy
- you don't have many specialized flash functions (like modeling light, strobo) or DOF preview
- DOF is too deep for many applications (subject separation is difficult or impossible)
- not designed for specialized shooting like architecture (T/S lenses, wide) concert low light (ISO quality not good enough or just not enough ISO / shutter speed), studio shooting (complex flash systems, speed) etc.

Continue this list if you think of anything....

Thanks for the compliment on my galleries. As Im sure you know, Pekka's original G1 gallery stands the test of time and remains a wonderful way to spend an hour or so. Also look up Don Ellis' Kleptography site (unique name for a search engine!) to see great G1 and now G2 photos.

To echo Pekka's comments, and to answer some of your questions:
Yes, you have a limited manual control over the G2--not limited in controlling the camera, but limited in that the camera doesn't have a full range of choices. Slowest shutter is 8 seconds, smallest aperture is f8.0. And manual focus is still pretty much a joke...

As Pekka says, just because the G2 says it can take an ISO 400 photo, don't go thinking you'll actually want to look at it and show it! I have never made a serious photo at other than ISO 50. It might as well not be an option. The D-30 can make pretty good images at ISO400. You will need a flash, either the Canon 420EX or 550EX, since these support E-TTL exposure. The built in flash is essentially useless and if used, produces horrible exposures.

Pekka also mentions a Pro/Con with the depth of field of the G2. It can be wonderful, especially if you like those "large format" images where everything is in focus. But sometimes you don't want everything to be in focus, and it's a technique-challenge to get the foreground in focus and the background out of focus enough to avoid being distracting. As you may have seen in my Portraits gallery, the success in part of these images is the choice of a simple background so that even if it's in focus, it's not distracting. I'm personally not too worried by the DOF problem, and have used it to my advantage as in this image where the tree and vine are further apart than I am from the tree (by a factor of about 2):

Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE

Thank you Pekka and Phil, very interesting. Here's one bottom line question -- my wonderful 11 year old daughter is a serious basketball player on a traveling team, and I expect to be spending a lot of time in relatively low light gyms for some years to come as the unofficial team photographer. Can the EOS D30 perform without an expensive f/2.8 lens in that environment well enough to take an action picture worth showing to others (publication is not an issue; but a decent presentation to other parents and family is)? If it can with a 3.5 or 4-5.6 level of lens, I could squeeze out the money eventually and it might be worth it. How would you compare the G2 ability to perform in that environment to the eos d30 with a 3.5 or 4-5.6 lens? Will neither perform well? Or is one significantly better than the other?

(To see what I took this Spring at a San Francisco tournament with my Casio at http://www.ofoto.com …3&US=0&collid=7​0940406103.)

Since you ask, I'll end my comments with my recommendation, hoping that among the >1000 members of this forum, there's someone out there who will give you a more informed opinion (since there's always threads about "D-30 and sports photography")

As I have been looking into the D-30, my conclusion has been that I need a f2.8 lens or faster, since this seems to affect the performance of the autofocussing. If there is a weakness of the camera, it's the low light autofocus, helped considerably by fast lenses. Hence, a D-30 with a fast telephoto (100-300?) would seem to fit your bill perfectly. Unfortunately, the G2 is *not* going to give you quality sports photos, unless you're prepared to shoot a LOT of photos and rely on lady luck. But that's what they made 1gig MDs for eh?

cheers, and good luck convincing the family accountant that you need camera plus lens!

cheers,