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Thread started 30 Nov 2013 (Saturday) 11:37
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Sony A7r - impressions

 
Shadowblade
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Nov 30, 2013 11:37 |  #1

I collected my A7r this morning, having pre-ordered the first one in Melbourne, and immediately put it to the test with a TS-E 17L and TS-E 24L, with 1.4x and 2x teleconverters, via a Metabones adapter.

No sample pics yet, since I don't have a RAW converter for it yet and there was nothing worth shooting. But the out-of-camera JPEGs show great detail, akin to what I'd normally see in a medium-format frame and definitely more than what I've been getting from 18-22MP sensors. Also no sign of pattern noise. Without a RAW converter, I can't comment about DR yet, but Exmor sensors have a very good record in that area.

There was no sign of mount-related vignetting even in the far corners of tilted and shifted images. with similar light falloff to that seen when using the same lenses on Canon bodies. Shooting the Melbourne skyline reflected in a river with the TS-E 24L with 2x TC at f/8 (i.e. wide open) on both the A7r and the 5D2, the A7r images still contained significantly more detail than the 5D2 images, demonstrating that, even with the handicap of shooting wide open with a 2x TC and f/8 being slightly past the point at which diffraction starts to kick in with a 36MP full-frame sensor, there is still a benefit to the higher-resolution sensor.

With regards to the body itself, a few things I noticed:

- It's rock-solid. Easily as solid-feeling as any Leica (but weather-sealed when using the right lenses) and considerably more solid than most DSLRs.

- Being a small camera, there are many multifunction dials and buttons, with some settings requiring delving into menus. On a camera of this size, that's forgivable, but I wouldn't have minded a slightly larger camera with more dedicated controls. I particularly miss the row of control buttons on the left of Nikon and Conan bodies as well as the lack of a dedicated multidirectional joystick - tilting the rear control wheel (while rotating it for other settings) just isn't as easy or intuitive, especially in gloves, and picking an AF point (which, given that it's contrast-detection AF, could be any point on the image) is much more laborious than selecting an AF point with a Nikon or Canon SLR.

- The menus are a lot better than the previous NEX menus. That said, they're still menus, and having to delve into them to change simple settings is laborious and annoying.

- The rear panel of the camera protrudes slightly from the rear 'face' of the camera, resulting in an L-shaped notch along the top rear of the camera. Sony decided to stick two buttons (menu and C2 (magnifier)) and a horizontal control wheel (shutter speed) in this notch. The C2 button is particularly hard to reach and is in a very annoying spot. Why they couldn't have made it flush with the rest of the back, instead of in a little notch, is beyond me.

- The hinged plastic covers for the USB (i,e. power) cable and AV cables are fantastic - they open easily and close just as easily and securely, and are a million times better than the rubbery Canon covers, which can be difficult to open at times, and, once opened, never seem to close properly again.

- Only one SD card slot. We knew that from the start, so it's not really an issue as such. But SD cards are small and cheap. There's really no excuse not to have two slots for data backup and redundancy.

- This is easily the best EVF I've seen in a camera so far. It's large, fast and responsive - certainly, the EVF delay is much smaller than the delay caused by an SLR mirror flipping up, and much, much smaller than the hundreds of milliseconds it takes your finger to press the shutter button once your brain has decided to take a shot.

- They put the 'record video' button on the back of the grip... RIGHT WHERE YOUR HAND HOLDS IT! Sure, it's recessed, but it can still be accidentally pressed at the worst moments - when you're setting up a shot and accidentally press it, it can start to record video and completely ruin your setup. Total design fail here. If only there was a way to completely disable this button, so that pressing it wouldn't do anything.

- Exposure bracketing seems to be more difficult. Normally, when you bracket exposures, you put the camera on a self-timer so that you're not touching it (hence, no movement) when the shots go off. From what I've tried, it seems that you can have either bracketed exposures, or a self-timer, but not both. Sure, it's less important here given the Exmor's extraordinary dynamic range, but, when you need it, you really need it. Nothing that can't be fixed with firmware, but still an annoying oversight.

Some issues at the moment which should be rectified in time:

- RRS have yet to produce an L-plate for the A7r. I've attached an old 5D plate onto it for now, but it's hardly an ideal solution - it's big and cumbersome, prevents any tilting of the display and requires me to remove the bracket in order to access the battery. Luckily, the camera also doubles as a charger if you plug in a USB cable. Naturally, one will probably come out in a few months.

- This is a landscape and studio camera, and will be used as such. That means long exposure. Bulb mode is accessible enough, but there's no wired remote you can buy to control it, and the Android-based wireless remote sucks on so many levels:
1. It's platform-specific.
2. It requires you to use your phone to control it. Phones use power, and have a different battery to cameras. Power tends to run out in the cold, or if you're on a shooting expedition in the wilderness. That's why people carry six camera batteries to have enough to last. No-one carries six phone batteries into the wilderness.
3. The program itself is crap and offers only very limited functions.

Basically, bulb mode functionality is abysmal, largely due to lack of accessories. There is also no way to do time lapse photography. This could be easily rectified, but no-one's bothered to do it. Honestly, how hard would it be to include a time lapse function in the camera's firmware, and to allow the shutter speed to be manually slowed to longer than 30 seconds? This goes for all cameras, not just Sony, but at least there are tethered and wireless remotes for Canon and NIkon bodies that offer these options.

The camera has a USB port. It can't be difficult to make something that you can plug into the USB port and have perfect wired remote control of the camera.

- It would be very nice to have some updated 45mm and 90mm tilt-shift lenses, instead of resorting to attaching teleconverters to the TS-E 24L. Naturally, this has nothing to do with Nikon, but I hope Canon follow through with it.

- Software support for the new RAW format seems limited for the moment. That's why I don't have any sample images.

I'm off to South America in two days' time for a shooting expedition - should have plenty of samples come December 26!




  
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1Tanker
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Nov 30, 2013 13:25 |  #2

Thanks for writing this up. It's nice to see some critiquing, rather than the usual "oohs and ahhs" posts about IQ (which we already know will be great).


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Nov 30, 2013 13:42 as a reply to  @ 1Tanker's post |  #3

Yes, thank you. I ask about a shutter cable else where and find this: http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …_with_multi_ter​minal.html (external link)


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onurrus
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Nov 30, 2013 15:17 |  #4

my impressions after 5 min of trying it out:

1- Iso performance could be better.
2 -I didnt like the shutter noise
3- it is not very small but easy to carry around.




  
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Shadowblade
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Nov 30, 2013 19:56 |  #5

onurrus wrote in post #16490877 (external link)
my impressions after 5 min of trying it out:

1- Iso performance could be better.
2 -I didnt like the shutter noise
3- it is not very small but easy to carry around.

I'd say the ISO performance is up there with the best of them. Slightly more visible noise (very fine-grained) than the Nikon D800, but also more detail retained - I think this is probably down to the processing. At ISO 12800, I was getting more detail than the 5D3, which seemed to be showing a lot of ugly 'splotches' of noise in the shadows. I can't say which has a better signal-to-noise ratio at high ISO (the overall noise looks to be about the same), but what I can say is that the distribution of noise in the new sensor is better than anything I've seen outside of a 1Dx or D4 - it's very fine-grained and smooth noise, rather than the ugly splotches of noise you get with the 5D3 or the smeared details of Nikon cameras.

What's wrong with the shutter noise? It's still quieter than any SLR camera.

It's certainly smaller than any other non-Leica full-frame body, but that comes at the cost of buttons having too many functions and a need to scroll through menus. I'd rather have had a slightly larger body, just to get back the row of buttons along the left and top of the camera, like in Canon and Nikon bodies. Still, it's leagues better in terms of functionality than any medium format back.




  
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onurrus
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Dec 01, 2013 02:11 |  #6

Shadowblade wrote in post #16491403 (external link)
I'd say the ISO performance is up there with the best of them. Slightly more visible noise (very fine-grained) than the Nikon D800, but also more detail retained - I think this is probably down to the processing. At ISO 12800, I was getting more detail than the 5D3, which seemed to be showing a lot of ugly 'splotches' of noise in the shadows. I can't say which has a better signal-to-noise ratio at high ISO (the overall noise looks to be about the same), but what I can say is that the distribution of noise in the new sensor is better than anything I've seen outside of a 1Dx or D4 - it's very fine-grained and smooth noise, rather than the ugly splotches of noise you get with the 5D3 or the smeared details of Nikon cameras.

What's wrong with the shutter noise? It's still quieter than any SLR camera.

It's certainly smaller than any other non-Leica full-frame body, but that comes at the cost of buttons having too many functions and a need to scroll through menus. I'd rather have had a slightly larger body, just to get back the row of buttons along the left and top of the camera, like in Canon and Nikon bodies. Still, it's leagues better in terms of functionality than any medium format back.

I didnt have time to spend more time withe the camera and what I have seen on the screen was grainer than my 6d.

Nothing wrong with the shutter noise I said I just didnt like it. it doesnt mean it is loud.I didnt like the sound :)

Enjoy your camera. ıt is stll the smallest and a very good ff camera!




  
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Dec 01, 2013 03:29 as a reply to  @ onurrus's post |  #7

Thanks for the write up,
But correct me if I'm wrong, can't the camera be paired with a tablet or phone this meaning you can shoot (set settings) through your device?
I'm hoping DSLR Controller will get on board with this or something like it. Then it would be perfect for me.
I'm not looking for a fast camera, I have a 1D mk3 for that, would be looking for a tech camera.
Will try and get to a store and get a hold of one one day.


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David ­ Arbogast
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Dec 02, 2013 09:40 |  #8

The review is much appreciated. It checks off two of my biggest concerns: the EVF and TS-E lens performance.

It is disappointing to read about the clunky workflow for mulitple exposure bracketing. This is something that Canon has mastered. Not surprising that the camera has got some warts, but the price is excellent and the imaging performance is probably tops.

I've been searching for an optimal way of shooting manual focus lenses and the more I hear about the A7R's EVF, the more convinced I am that it represents the best fit for MF shooting. Especially with handheld walkaround shooting where focusing both quickly and accurately is needed (vs. tripod shooting where one can be more methodical and slower).

Hopefully in January I can place my order. And hopefully Metabones III adapters will be available in greater supply at that time.


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Dec 02, 2013 11:23 |  #9

Does it line skip when manual focusing and zoomed in like the D800? Does it produce a brighter live view image than the d800? Those were two huge problems for a camera that is otherwise so well suited for landscape photography.




  
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Shadowblade
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Dec 02, 2013 11:40 |  #10

Canon_Lover wrote in post #16495310 (external link)
Does it line skip when manual focusing and zoomed in like the D800? Does it produce a brighter live view image than the d800? Those were two huge problems for a camera that is otherwise so well suited for landscape photography.

I haven't noticed any line skipping when manual focusing. Once you turn up the brightness to maximum, the live view image is bright enough even for the Australian summer. Sometimes you might have to shade the screen to reduce glare, but, until someone makes a matte-surface LCD display, that will continue to be the case.




  
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David ­ Arbogast
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Dec 02, 2013 16:02 |  #11

Another LiveView question: The D800's LiveView was much more susceptible to video noise in low-light conditions than Canon's LiveView. It's really a night and day difference that renders the D800 unusable in situations where the Canon LiveView is still usable. So, I guess the question is: is the LiveView performance equal to or greater than Canon's LiveView in low-light conditions (landscape photography at narrow apertures, like f/11 or so?


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Shadowblade
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Dec 02, 2013 17:20 |  #12

Why would you be focusing at f/11? You'd focus wide open, then stop down to take the shot. I didn't have a problem focusing in the dark in order to take a few test shots.




  
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David ­ Arbogast
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Dec 02, 2013 17:23 |  #13

Shadowblade wrote in post #16496293 (external link)
Why would you be focusing at f/11? You'd focus wide open, then stop down to take the shot. I didn't have a problem focusing in the dark in order to take a few test shots.

So, you're unwilling to answer my question because you think my question is stupid? Thanks. :(


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Shadowblade
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Dec 02, 2013 17:36 |  #14

I can't answer the question because I've never tried focusing at f/11, let alone in the dark! I doubt you could effectively focus any camera at f/11 in starlight conditions, anyway.




  
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David ­ Arbogast
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Dec 02, 2013 17:45 |  #15

With a Canon, regardless of what your aperture is set to, you get a display feedback of the lens' widest aperture setting. Right now I am sitting in a dark room looking at my 5D III's LiveView screen and there is no difference in image (DOF) or noise levels regardless of whether the aperture is set to f/1.4 or f/16. That, apparently, is because the aperture is held open until the shutter is released.

The D800 (and I suspect the A7R) provides a true image from the camera's actual aperture setting. In that case you do indeed need to change the aperture manually to focus, and back again to take the shot. I prefer the Canon's approach to LiveView, because I don't rely on LiveView to give me accurate DOF feedback; I just use it for framing and focusing.


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Sony A7r - impressions
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