When to request payment for product photography?

Many corporations have such slow processing it makes 50% down not an option.

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #16540269
I don't think photography generates intellectual property. That's the realm of inventions. No?

Wrong!! art and photo is 'intellectual property'

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #16540269
I don't think photography generates intellectual property. That's the realm of inventions. No?

No. Intellectual Property is a umbrella term for any work of human creativity that benefits from protection under Copyright, Trademark or Patent laws. Photographs are pictorial/graphic works and as such covered by Copyright and are thus Intellectual Property. http://www.copyright.g​ov/title17/92chap1.htm​l#102

proimages wrote in post #16540379
Wrong!! art and photo is 'intellectual property'

I should've known...

proimages wrote in post #16540262
Here is best line you can include in a contract.

"Intellectual Property licenses are transferred once final payment clears account"

I tend to work in project phases..new clients pay in advance of work
and through out the process..less risk and drama. I give more wiggle room after working together on a number of projects.

Getting clarity on payments plans is very important, if they are going to take 6 months to pay best to know that up front and charge accordingly. The one's that are not clear about time line for pay checks are worth avoiding!!
cheers D

Alveric wrote in post #16540344
BllinkBid sums it up very nicely: 'License usage rights are transferred upon full payment of this invoice. Failure to make payments voids any license granted and constitutes copyright infringement.'

I'd collect 50% down and the rest upon delivery of the images. The size of the products is irrelevant.

Thank you. This is what I was hoping for; at least by minimum payment before the images are released for their use if they cannot put any money down. They do have a bit of a time crunch as they need them no later than end of January so I guess in a sense I'll hold the images hostage otherwise

If it's a big corporation you don't have to hold anything hostage. They have to much to loose if they screw you. Just invoice them and if they use the images without paying you can then go after them for copyright infringement.

As the smaller of the companies, I will not finance the larger companies project. I require a retainer equaling 50% of the projects invoice with the balance due upon delivery or within 30 days depending on the client. The term deposit may be interpreted as refundable if they change their mind, the project is cancelled or someone no shows or whatever reason. Licensing will not be authorized until I receive payment in full. I also offer a 5% discount if paid in full in advance. If a client is in a time crunch they need to make arrangements not me, it may be a little harsh but we are talking about business. I get them an estimate ASAP and then it's up to them whether or not to move forward. I never skip on paperwork whether it's a friend, new or established client.

tcphoto1 wrote in post #16542158
As the smaller of the companies, I will not finance the larger companies project. I require a retainer equaling 50% of the projects invoice with the balance due upon delivery or within 30 days depending on the client. The term deposit may be interpreted as refundable if they change their mind, the project is cancelled or someone no shows or whatever reason. Licensing will not be authorized until I receive payment in full. I also offer a 5% discount if paid in full in advance. If a client is in a time crunch they need to make arrangements not me, it may be a little harsh but we are talking about business. I get them an estimate ASAP and then it's up to them whether or not to move forward. I never skip on paperwork whether it's a friend, new or established client.

I only do commercial/advertising work and have a strong stable of repeat clients and I can tell you what you have written is the reason many here will never be consistently seated at the table. It can actually take 45-90 days for an invoice to work its way through the system. You can demand all you want and 5% is nothing to there clients. I only had to bid on 3 jobs last year. Yep it business and they have their systems and either you can learn to work in their systems or not. Agencies can be the worst at paying. And they are usually on retainers.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16542100
If it's a big corporation you don't have to hold anything hostage. They have to much to loose if they screw you. Just invoice them and if they use the images without paying you can then go after them for copyright infringement.

Never thought of it that way. Thank you.

tcphoto1 wrote in post #16542158
As the smaller of the companies, I will not finance the larger companies project. I require a retainer equaling 50% of the projects invoice with the balance due upon delivery or within 30 days depending on the client. The term deposit may be interpreted as refundable if they change their mind, the project is cancelled or someone no shows or whatever reason. Licensing will not be authorized until I receive payment in full. I also offer a 5% discount if paid in full in advance. If a client is in a time crunch they need to make arrangements not me, it may be a little harsh but we are talking about business. I get them an estimate ASAP and then it's up to them whether or not to move forward. I never skip on paperwork whether it's a friend, new or established client.

Discount sounds good also. I may approach them with the discount if paid in advanced if not a full payment before the images are released. I don't think I should have any problems with that.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16542181
I only do commercial/advertising work and have a strong stable of repeat clients and I can tell you what you have written is the reason many here will never be consistently seated at the table. It can actually take 45-90 days for an invoice to work its way through the system. You can demand all you want and 5% is nothing to there clients. I only had to bid on 3 jobs last year. Yep it business and they have their systems and either you can learn to work in their systems or not. Agencies can be the worst at paying. And they are usually on retainers.

My own experience has been similar. In the last 5 years I have only worked under contract once, the client insisted on that because I was reshooting a project done by a fauxtographer. They had tried to go cheap and got burned. My clients would be insulted if I presented them with a contract to sign, we work on trust.

Asking for money up front is viewed by some clients as a weakness, they think if you aren't funded well enough to do the job then you probably aren't doing a good job of running your business.

It's certainly a good idea to work with contracts and payment up front for those working with the general public but the same rules don't always apply with reputable businesses.

breal, just get an e-mail or call to see what days I am available and then we book a date. I show up, invoice and I get paid. End of story. I have several clients that I have direct deposit with and they take at least 30 days to pay. AT LEAST...

You hit the nail on the head with the trust word. I only bid on 3 jobs last year and all 3 had to get at least 3 bids. 2 were old clients and were going to use me anyway and the third already had the photographer they were going to use but also required 3 bids. It was a job that I wouldn't have gotten anyway because it was outside what I usually do and the guy they used was a guy I would have recommended.

Weakness? I remember the Market crash in '99 and '08 when clients disappeared and invoices went unpaid whether images were used or not. Agencies are going to complain about cutting a check whether you ask for expenses upfront or it's been 120 days since the files have been delivered. I find the discussion interesting and hope that it continues.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16542260
breal, just get an e-mail or call to see what days I am available and then we book a date. I show up, invoice and I get paid. End of story. I have several clients that I have direct deposit with and they take at least 30 days to pay. AT LEAST...

You hit the nail on the head with the trust word. I only bid on 3 jobs last year and all 3 had to get at least 3 bids. 2 were old clients and were going to use me anyway and the third already had the photographer they were going to use but also required 3 bids. It was a job that I wouldn't have gotten anyway because it was outside what I usually do and the guy they used was a guy I would have recommended.

That's the way it works for me too. I do have one client who shows up on the job to answer any questions his AD or I may have and leaves me a signed blank check. We've been working together for more than 20 years so trust has been established.

You're right about bids, generally it's when there's a requirement that the agency get at least three bids. One agency has requested so many bids and not given me work that I don't even give it much thought anymore. I told my studio manager to just make up some high figures and submit them. I know they are going to use their usual stable of photographers so why bother with real figures.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16542100
Just invoice them and if they use the images without paying you can then go after them for copyright infringement.

Interesting.
There was a discussion a few months back about this, and some said that it wouldn't count as copyright infringement, but instead would be breath of contract and/or nonpayment of invoice.

I suppose it's all in how the contract is worded - if there is a contract. Without a written contract, then what?

tcphoto1 wrote in post #16542272
Weakness? I remember the Market crash in '99 and '08 when clients disappeared and invoices went unpaid whether images were used or not. Agencies are going to complain about cutting a check whether you ask for expenses upfront or it's been 120 days since the files have been delivered. I find the discussion interesting and hope that it continues.

I was in business then. Not one invoice went unpaid. I actually stayed busy during all of those times.