Your government in action!

20droger wrote in post #16540430
Today, I had to go on the Social Security website to make an address correction. The whole thing I had to change was my street address, which is exactly this long:

555 East Laaa Cnnnnnna Drive

This turns out to be too long for the address field! I had to shorten "East" to "E" and "Drive" to "Dr", without even any periods.

What is wrong with the U.S. Government's web designers? Is there a reason they can't deal with the real world?

It's things like this that make me really sympathetic for a friend I had in high school. His name (not kidding) was Aristotele Poppatriandaphilopolis​. Try fitting that on some stupid computer form!

I really did think your "a" and "n" keys had stuck there

It doesn't matter whether the database is antiquated or not. The two exemplar addresses I used in post #10 both existed well before any computer database was created. This means that, if the database is currently antiquated, the original programmers failed to create a database that was germane to the real world at the time.

The fact that the Social Security Administration is using a database that allows only 22 characters for a street address was then, is now, and shall ever be, a slap in the face to every citizen whose address it will not accommodate.

As I said in the title, your government in action, demonstrating that they lack the ability to work in the real world, lack the ability to hire competent programmers, and simply just don't care.

Mikesphotaes wrote in post #16552796
I really did think your "a" and "n" keys had stuck there

If you think I'm going to post my real street address on line, your family has my sympathy.

20droger wrote in post #16553118
If you think I'm going to post my real street address on line, your family has my sympathy.

You missed that one too.

20droger wrote in post #16553115
It doesn't matter whether the database is antiquated or not. The two exemplar addresses I used in post #10 both existed well before any computer database was created. This means that, if the database is currently antiquated, the original programmers failed to create a database that was germane to the real world at the time.

The fact that the Social Security Administration is using a database that allows only 22 characters for a street address was then, is now, and shall ever be, a slap in the face to every citizen whose address it will not accommodate.

As I said in the title, your government in action, demonstrating that they lack the ability to work in the real world, lack the ability to hire competent programmers, and simply just don't care.

That's not how software works. I wasn't talking about the data itself, as in your existing address. There's an infrastructure used for holding data called the schema. It's akin to the y2k problem if u recall. Too few bits were use to hold dates. It's the same with legacy databases.

Anyway it's all just a theory. But I can tell u I am good at what I do. And I would not make such a "mistake" unless if I was told to or it was necessary due to the existing infrastructure.

I know quite well how software and databases work, having programmed in several different languages since the '70s. 22 characters for a street address isn't bad programming. It's incompetent programming.

20droger wrote in post #16555947
I know quite well how software and databases work, having programmed in several different languages since the '70s. 22 characters for a street address isn't bad programming. It's incompetent programming.

I misread what you original wrote. Sorry shouldn't have said you didn't understand software. But I still disagree... Those who work with government software understand how even the brightest programmers can produce bad software. It's not just the incompetence of the programmers. It's everyone. Including tax payers.

Xyclopx wrote in post #16556419
I misread what you original wrote. Sorry shouldn't have said you didn't understand software. But I still disagree... Those who work with government software understand how even the brightest programmers can produce bad software. It's not just the incompetence of the programmers. It's everyone. Including tax payers.

The tax payers? Are you kidding me? The governments inability to prioritize their spending isn't the fault of the taxpayer. That's just nonsense.

Scatterbrained wrote in post #16556473
The tax payers? Are you kidding me? The governments inability to prioritize their spending isn't the fault of the taxpayer. That's just nonsense.

They do prioritize it. And that's the problem. Do u want your money to go to revising legacy software (or I suppose by the other viewpoint hiring better developers) or do you want to pay for maintaining your streets? It's just silly to me that everyone seems to want everything but not want to pay for it. When was the last time the majority of America wanted to raise taxes?

And beyond this who do you think put the decision makers in power?

Of course ultimately all the fault lies in us.

Xyclopx wrote in post #16556480
They do prioritize it. And that's the problem. Do u want your money to go to revising legacy software (or I suppose by the other viewpoint hiring better developers) or do you want to pay for maintaining your streets? It's just silly to me that everyone seems to want everything but not want to pay for it. When was the last time the majority of America wanted to raise taxes?

And beyond this who do you think put the decision makers in power?

Of course ultimately all the fault lies in us.

I'll just say you have a very naive view of politics and leave it at that.

Everyone knows that the tax money raised to build better government databases is spent creating vast data warehouses for the CIA listening stations so that they can store the cellphone conversations of every non-American on the planet. only joking, we all know it is just a silly rumour!

The other possibility is that the US government was anticipating the "Texting" world we live in now and were just 30 years ahead of their time.

In my experience governments buy the computer systems they specify not the systems they need.

:p

S.Horton wrote in post #16551208
Aside from greed, the best explanation for government behavior is incompetence.

Have you seen "yes Minister" or "yes Prime Minister". Comedies about the British Parliament.. so good the opening of parliament was delayed once as the then Prime Minister, Maggie (and about 90% of MPs) wanted to watch.

Anyway one quote I have always remembered went something along the lines of:

"It isn't the will of the civil service that is of concern, it's the won't of the civil service"

Xyclopx wrote in post #16552456
K.... I guess I can add to this...

So I write software used by the government. My hypothesis of why this seemingly ridiculous error can occur has to do with my understanding of why the health care website bombed. There are zillions of reasons why, some of which not appropriate to be discussed here, but in general it all comes down to trying to within your budget, that is the budget dictated by the taxes you pay and how our politicians and military allocate them.

Thirty years ago the largest hard drives a consumer might have would be 20mb. That's it. And though they aren't used today the government does still use some software dating back that far. Specifically databases generally have static sizes for fields and decades ago having a text field length long enough to hold all addresses probably would be too slow to query and would probably take up too much space.

Yes they should rewrite all legacy software. But they won't. You will not be willing to pay the price. Think of how many times you or your friends have voted against raising taxes.

And then the other humongous problem--one reason why obamas site failed him. Because the government likes to keep projects separate from each other. It's as if different pieces were produced for totally different customers though ultimately it all goes back to our government. So a website allowing you to enter an address has to work with dozens of other sites or databases that were not designed to work together. So u get something so weird like this because it's just the common demonator.

Anyway that's my theory based on my experience dealing with similar things.

This.

People whine about prior technologies being inadequate but also whine about costs to fix them. Think roads and more taxes.

I work for the VA and some of our pay dispensing system is still using DOS based software made in the 70s. The system has it's limitation but until we upgrade that portion, it's still going to be the only thing for the job.

Also, the complaining process seems to be the most vocal when the government is expected to pay someone something instead when someone has to pay the government something. We have some Veterans being overpaid thousands of dollars a month, but nope never heard a peep from them. (This too is because of a software limitation, combined with human error that allows this kind of thing) And yes, we're working on upgrading this particular software.

I wished we hired MS or Google to fix our software, but that would mean tons of more taxes than the "lowest bidder" though.

blindshooter wrote in post #16557393
This.

People whine about prior technologies being inadequate but also whine about costs to fix them. Think roads and more taxes.

I work for the VA and some of our pay dispensing system is still using DOS based software made in the 70s. The system has it's limitation but until we upgrade that portion, it's still going to be the only thing for the job.

Also, the complaining process seems to be the most vocal when the government is expected to pay someone something instead when someone has to pay the government something. We have some Veterans being overpaid thousands of dollars a month, but nope never heard a peep from them. (This too is because of a software limitation, combined with human error that allows this kind of thing) And yes, we're working on upgrading this particular software.

I wished we hired MS or Google to fix our software, but that would mean tons of more taxes than the "lowest bidder" though.

One more time, it has nothing to do with "not enough tax dollars". That is an incredibly naive view that tells me you aren't paying close enough attention to our government.

In the olden days we limited field lengths to reduce the amount of storage a record took. That was in the days when disk storage was measured in megabytes and each one cost a lot, especially when you we're taking about "mainframe" storage.