60 D doesn't sync time in flash mode

Hi all
I'm new here and like most have a question problem.
I have a 60D and last night I wanted to take some shots with the pop-up flash. As most of the time the mode dial was on Av. With the 16-35 2.8L attached and 800 asa I got to about 1/10sec. To freeze some of the movement I raised the pop-up flash and with my 550 D the sync time changes to 1/60 or 1/200 depending on other settings.
I could not get the 60 D to do the same and had to shoot in "M" which worked but was a pain in the bud!
Where is the setting to change this function (automatically change exp. time to flash sync value if flash is raised) or is there something wrong with the Body.
Thanks for yo0ur help and have a gigantic 2014

M is usually easier to use than Av in this case, since from your figures it seems ambient light was pretty dim. But if you insist, you'll find the details in your user's manual. Different cameras have this setting in different places. The 1DX does it in the flash control menu, the 7D in the custom functions. Your user's manual will tell you the exact location for your model.

guido.coza wrote in post #16568489
Hi all
I'm new here and like most have a question problem.
I have a 60D and last night I wanted to take some shots with the pop-up flash. As most of the time the mode dial was on Av. With the 16-35 2.8L attached and 800 asa I got to about 1/10sec. To freeze some of the movement I raised the pop-up flash and with my 550 D the sync time changes to 1/60 or 1/200 depending on other settings.
I could not get the 60 D to do the same and had to shoot in "M" which worked but was a pain in the bud!
Where is the setting to change this function (automatically change exp. time to flash sync value if flash is raised) or is there something wrong with the Body.
Thanks for yo0ur help and have a gigantic 2014

From having actually used and owned a 60D, there is no problem. This is the way the camera works. Canon DSLR's usually set the shutter speed to 1/60 when the built-in flash or a Canon EX-series flash is used

This is clearly documented on page 130 of the 60D's instruction manual.

I agree that M-mode is better for flash photography. That said, neither of the above posts addressed the question.

To force faster shutter speeds, with flash, in Av mode, you need to go to the CUSTOM FUNCTIONS menu. Select the first item: C.Fn I: Exposure. Use the rear wheel to scroll to #7: Flash sync. speed in Av mode. Press the SET button and make your selection from the menu.

0: Auto. Gives you metered shutter speed.
1: 1/250-1/60. Camera makes a selection in this range.
2: 1/250 (fixed). Shutter speed is always 1/250 in Av with flash turned on.

There are a lot of good photographic reasons for leaving this set to 0. I can't think of one good reason for either of the other choices. This is a kludge. You'll learn more about flash photography if you stay in M-mode. If learning how to control your camera is not your thing, set it to P-mode when using flash. That will eliminate your shutter-control problem without forcing you to make other decisions.

EOS5DC wrote in post #16568714
I agree that M-mode is better for flash photography. That said, neither of the above posts addressed the question.

To force faster shutter speeds, with flash, in Av mode, you need to go to the CUSTOM FUNCTIONS menu.
0: Auto. Gives you metered shutter speed.
1: 1/250-1/60. Camera makes a selection in this range.
2: 1/250 (fixed). Shutter speed is always 1/250 in Av with flash turned on.

There are a lot of good photographic reasons for leaving this set to 0. I can't think of one good reason for either of the other choices. This is a kludge. .

Txs a mill EOS%DC you r right u r the first to answer the question, but not with a bit of irony
the problem is that with the flash on I have different light circumstances, and I seemed to me they where not accounted for. As it is I will stick to "0" and shoot if needed in "M"
thanks for the responce and info and have an awesome 2014

In AV mode, if you leave it on Auto, it tries to use it as a Fill flash, so it will meter for the ambient. Sometimes, the results are screwey, like shooting at SS 1/10 in broad daylight...

If you fix (even the range) of the SS in Av you have to make sure that the photo without the flash is metered properly.

For example, say you set Av f4 and sync 1/250. In essence you are shooting Manual f4, 1/250 with ETTL fill flash. If it is a bright day and your ISO is 100... the photo is cooked...

guido.coza wrote in post #16569095
Txs a mill EOS%DC you r right u r the first to answer the question, but not with a bit of irony
the problem is that with the flash on I have different light circumstances, and I seemed to me they where not accounted for. As it is I will stick to "0" and shoot if needed in "M"
thanks for the responce and info and have an awesome 2014

In Av and Tv mode, Canon cameras completely ignore whether there is a flash on the camera or not, unless you set the afore mentioned custom function to drive the shutter speed to 1/200. And this is as it should be. Canon rightly assumes that if you are in Av or Tv modes and using a flash that you are asking the camera to manage ambient light exposure for you. The flash is presumably fill light.

Oh.....and if you notice this. If you use M mode and set the shutter speed to 1/200 and then pick your own aperture and ISO then you are doing the same exact thing that the camera will do in Av with the custom function enabled. So why bother? If you want to quash the ambient light and use flash as the main, you might as well shoot in M mode. It takes absolutely no extra thought. I can't imagine what was 'a pain' about this compared to Av + sync locked.

It's up to you to read the posts properly, and if you do, you'll see that I told you how to handle the situation already in the first reply to your question. Now you seem to have grasped that M is actuallt easier to use in almost every case.

apersson850 wrote in post #16569574
It's up to you to read the posts properly, and if you do, you'll see that I told you how to handle the situation already in the first reply to your question. Now you seem to have grasped that M is actuallt easier to use in almost every case.

Most would agree, M-mode is better for flash. That does not answer the OP's question about Av, however.

No, that's why I continued to state that if the OP insisted on using Av, he could set the exposure time limit. Since the exact procedure and the available options are different between different camera models, I also gave the hint that the user's manual would specify exactly how to do it with each particular model.

I don't expect other people to read the user's manual for me either.

There isn't any clear "better" exposure mode when using flash.... It's just different.

Simply remember FILL versus FULL.

When using the camera in any of the auto exposure modes (Av, Tv, P) with flash, the camera will set the exposure according to the ambient light condition (as if the flash weren't there) and then fire the flash as FILL. The output of the flash is held back or reduced about 1.5 or 1.7 stops, unless you adjust it more or less.

This FILL flash firing automatically is just enough to open up shadows, add a catchlight, etc. It will not stop subject movement... Instead with movement it can cause ghosting, as the camera is still relying primarily upon ambient light for the exposure.

Switch to M or Manual if you want FULL flash, where the flash is the main light source. Use this to stop action. Or to be able to use a faster shutter speed that helps prevent camera shake blur. Above a certain point (where it stops recording a lot of ambient light), the shutter speed actually isn't too important. That's because the short duration of the flash itself acts like a shutter speed as fast as 1/720 in many cases, even higher with some special flashes. The flash essentially "becomes" your shutter and you control the distance the flash reaches by changing the aperture and/or ISO. (Unless you choose to manually adjust everything so that the ambient light is still recorded.)

You could have used higher ISO and gotten faster shutter speeds.

Often you can use the camera set to Av or Tv or P as a starting point, noting what it sets, then switch to M and set things manually, reducing how much ambient lit background is captured in the image, for example.

No matter what exposure mode you have set on the camera, you can use Flash Exposure Compensation to either increase or decrease the exposure from the flash. Of course, this will only effect the FILL portion of the exposure, when using any of the camera's auto exposure modes.

The flash will usually recycle much faster when used as FILL, than it will when used as FULL flash.

amfoto1 wrote in post #16570097
When using the camera in any of the auto exposure modes (Av, Tv, P) with flash, the camera will set the exposure according to the ambient light condition (as if the flash weren't there) and then fire the flash as "FILL". The output of the flash is reduced about 1.5 or 1.7 stops, unless you adjust it more or less.

OK, this is about the second time I've seen some incorrect stuff posted on EOS flash behavior in two days so I have to clear this up.

First, Amfoto is correct that in Av and Tv modes EOS cameras will always (pretty much, Google NEVEC for detail) expose for ambient light whether a flash is installed or not.

But the description of what is happening in P mode is not quite correct. If the camera is in light levels of EV13 or brighter, the camera will behave the same as in Av or Tv mode relative to ambient light.

But when the light is lower than EV13 in P mode, the camera will actually abandon a correct ambient exposure when the flash is turned on. It will usually move towards a default exposure of 1/60 shutter speed and wide open aperture while relying on the flash to expose the shot. It's a muddle if you ask me, and my 99.9999% disposition to avoiding P mode becomes 100% with flash.

amfoto1 wrote in post #16570097
Often you can use the camera set to Av or Tv or P as a starting point, noting what it sets, then switch to M and set things manually, reducing how much ambient lit background is captured in the image, for example.

I see this recommendation here now and then. But why? By setting M mode to begin with, and rotate the appropriate dial until the needle starts to move, you know you are within X stops (depends on camera model) from what the camera considers the correct exposure. The information is already there - in M mode. To flip over to another mode, set something up, look at the numbers, remember them, switch over to M mode, set the two unities to the values you now hopefully still remember - where is the benefit from just doing this from inside the M mode?

The recommendation seems as useful to me as to drive back home from somewhere to use your landline to call your cellphone to talk to yourself.

The behavior of P mode when used with E-TTL flash is of course to automate what you can set for Av mode, i.e. to avoid letting the exposure time be so long that things start getting fuzzy due to camera shake.

apersson850 wrote in post #16570126
I see this recommendation here now and then. But why? By setting M mode to begin with, and rotate the appropriate dial until the needle starts to move, you know you are within X stops (depends on camera model) from what the camera considers the correct exposure. The information is already there - in M mode. To flip over to another mode, set something up, look at the numbers, remember them, switch over to M mode, set the two unities to the values you now hopefully still remember - where is the benefit from just doing this from inside the M mode?

The recommendation seems as useful to me as to drive back home from somewhere to use your landline to call your cellphone to talk to yourself.

But at least you could remind yourself what aperture, shutter speed or ISO to set.