Anyone using an on camera and off camera ettl flashes for receptions?

Is anyone using on camera and off camera ttl speelights at receptions? With my newly aquired yn622s, I think I want to try using my usual combo of off camera lights for rim/kicker and bounced BFT on camera for main light. Anyway, how do you handle the ratios for the kicker vs the main light? In studio, Im usually one stop below on he kickers. Will that work well with the 2:1 ratio in a largish reception hall? Im a bit concerned with how the ttl will work with the kicker light. How does it meter that since most of it probably wont register in the pre flash.

Using E-TTL for a kicker makes no sense to me. How is your camera + flash going to be able to calculate what 'looks good' -- particularly as regards a thin strip of intentionally overexposed light that marks the perimeters of your subjects ? All of my flashes, off-camera and on-camera are in manual.

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #16591801
Using E-TTL for a kicker makes no sense to me. How is your camera + flash going to be able to calculate what 'looks good' ? All of my flashes, off-camera and on-camera are in manual.

You can adjust the ratio by using groups.

Ok--it looks like I'm not understanding the scenario. Is the ratio measured by the actual light being put out by the flashes OR the resultant light falling on the area you're shooting ?

gonzogolf wrote in post #16591805
You can adjust the ratio by using groups.

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #16591814
Ok--it looks like I'm not understanding the scenario. Is the ratio measured by the actual light being put out by the flashes OR the resultant light falling on the area you're shooting ?

I dunno, thats why Im asking.

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #16591814
Ok--it looks like I'm not understanding the scenario. Is the ratio measured by the actual light being put out by the flashes OR the resultant light falling on the area you're shooting ?

The ratio controls the output of light from one group to another. So your group A on the camera could be adjusted independently of the flashes in group B which would be your background lights.

gonzogolf wrote in post #16591822
The ratio controls the output of light from one group to another. So your group A on the camera could be adjusted independently of the flashes in group B which would be your background lights.

But doesnt the preflash confuse the crap out of the ttl system?

JakAHearts wrote in post #16591841
But doesnt the preflash confuse the crap out of the ttl system?

The preflash is the TTL system.

gonzogolf wrote in post #16591845
The preflash is the TTL system.

Yes, Im aware. How does it calculate an exposure for the off camera light since most of its light is reflected elsewhere?

JakAHearts wrote in post #16591850
Yes, Im aware. How does it calculate an exposure for the off camera light since most of its light is reflected elsewhere?

I dont fully undestand the ETTL algorithm, others smarter than me have claimed the same, but if its a ratio I'm guessing that it calculates the power of group A, then adjusts the power of group B(upward or downward) to get the desired ratio.

Regarding the following diagram--if the subject at S2 needs less fill and more kick (than S1) because they're closer to the fill source and further from the kicker source, how is ETTL and ratios between flashes helping (they are inverse !) ? This presumes that ratios are defined by sheer output of the flash.

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #16591888
Regarding the following diagram--if the subject at S2 needs less fill and more kick (than S1) because they're closer to the fill source and further from the kicker source, how is ETTL and ratios between flashes helping (they are inverse !) ? This presumes that ratios are defined by sheer output of the flash.

Move kicker further away.

But as s1 moves to s2, less fill power is needed, so if a ratio is set up the kicker will go down in power too, so it, the kicker, would in fact need to be moved closer to the subject. But I do recognize the form of your joke

JakAHearts wrote in post #16591908
Move kicker further away.

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #16591888
Regarding the following diagram--if the subject at S2 needs less fill and more kick (than S1) because they're closer to the fill source and further from the kicker source, how is ETTL and ratios between flashes helping (they are inverse !) ? This presumes that ratios are defined by sheer output of the flash.

So in your scenario (leaving out the second group of lights for now) ETTL would expose S2 properly (if ETTL works as it should) and because S1 is father from the group A flash it would be presumably darker. Now if you add the second lighting group (B), if its power output is based on the ratio that you select of that of the first then if you have B set to be a stop brighter than group A S1 would likely be brigher than S2, conversely if you set group B to be one stop under group A then the reverse would be true. You seem to be hung up on subject position rather than the ratio.