Speedlights or monolights?

Qlayer2 wrote in post #16599657
I'm thinking the same thing. I can buy cheap monolights now- but I think I will be disappointed in them shortly. They don't hold their value due to high shipping costs- if I buy a $150 flashpoint I think I'll just want better down the line and lose money. If I start with the speedlights I will always be able to find a use for them, either on or off camera.

I've gone through the strobist blog a lot in the last few weeks- it's one of the resources that started me on this path. Thanks everyone!

Fair enough. But anything you buy you lose money on. For the record back in my old studio days in the early to mid-90s, I had white lightnings. They were terrific and extremely expensive then. Coming back into it just from a hobby perspective, I'm quite pleased with my flashpoints and I have no plans to buy anything more expensive. They are good lights with lots of features and accessories available for the money. There are better lights and I've owned them, but I just can't make the cost-justification. Speedlights are nice, but by going only with speedlights you really are limiting yourself.

I wouldn't opt for a pile o' speedlights. One E-TTL speedlight to be used on camera (preferably bounced) when you're out with family will serve you well. You can do a lot with one light if you know what your doing. You can follow that up with strobes for home use. You can also mix speedlights and strobes when needed. I wouldn't build a lighting kit around speedlights, but I wouldn't go without a speedlight.

Scatterbrained wrote in post #16599680
I wouldn't opt for a pile o' speedlights. One E-TTL speedlight to be used on camera (preferably bounced) when you're out with family will serve you well. You can do a lot with one light if you know what your doing. You can follow that up with strobes for home use. You can also mix speedlights and strobes when needed. I wouldn't build a lighting kit around speedlights, but I wouldn't go without a speedlight.

I would agree with this. You can do a lot with one speedlight. The law of diminishing returns sets in and 3 is probably overkill. Adding a second however adds a ton of value. Check out this particular On Assignment from Strobist.

http://strobist.blogsp​ot.com …ment-steve-at-google.html

That's an incredible image and having one speedlight would not have been as dramatic. Having a second speedlight can really make a huge difference on location. This is another good example.

http://strobist.blogsp​ot.com …-use-second-light-to.html

If you can't tell, I've been hanging out there a lot lately. I would get one, good E-TTL speedlight, as you suggest (I have an older Canon 580EX), and then add one totally manual speedlight. Maybe look for something like a used LumoPro LP160 as a for example, or even a used LP120. Now that the LP180 is out, those who have to have the latest and greatest are parting with the older ones to trade up. I tend to use stuff for a decade. A stand with fixtures, umbrella, and you're off to the races. And a second stand with different modifier is not that expensive.

Then I'd move to monolights on heavier stands. This thread has sounded a bit like "this or that" choice discussion. I think both have their place and in the absence of any budget constraints, I'd recommend he get two speedlights and two monolights all with stands and a bunch of modifiers. In studio that would be all he'd ever need. Outside he's well-equipped with two speedlights. And for a couple Benjamins, he could later DIY a nice portable power pack for a monolight.

Both have their pros and cons. Both are valuable. I don't think it's an either or decision. But given 1.) that the kid will be running around in short order, 2.) that regardless of what you can do with either one monolight or one speedlight, two is a whole lot better, and 3.) Qlayer2 needs a good and versatile (meaning portable and no power cords needed) setup to really maximize his potential, and finally 4.) Wifey is not likely to want to up the budget much after the baby arrives, at least for a while ... the order in which gear is acquired here is pretty important. Whew! Sorry for the long sentence.


Here's the deal, I think. If Qlayer2 thinks he will be doing a lot of photos of the new family member in posed settings in the house over the next several years as he/she grows, then get a good TTL speedlight and a monolight setup. This would be great while the baby is not so mobile.

If, on the other hand, Qlayer2 thinks something like 60%, 70% or even more of the photos might be taken elsewhere, then probably a decent two-speedlight setup followed by the monolight as #3 makes sense.

One thing I don't think the OP has said (unless I missed it) is whether he has a good TTL speedlight already. If you do, then I think your $500 budget would be able to swing both a used manual second speedlight and a monolight and you'd be really cooking! I really do like both types of light, I'm worried I sound anti-monolight and that is not my intent.

I've had my 580EX for about 7 years, pretending I don't already have a couple of Alien Bees, if I had $500 to spend today, that's what I'd do. Another decent (used) manual speedlight and a monolight. But regardless, given what I know about kids, wives, and how much use I've gotten out of the ABs, I'd say start with a couple of speedlights first. But think about how much shooting of the kid you think you will actually be doing posed in the house, or at other locations, that's an important factor, too.

John, do you have kids? I have a 4 year old and 3 year old and I can assure you that at no time have I had time to set up off camera lights on location to get shots of my girls. The vast majority of the shots of my girls are taken with natural light, followed by on camera bounced (and occasionally direct) flash, followed distantly by studio lighting. That's my reasoning behind a single speedlight and then a studio set up. I don't disagree that a two speedlight set up can be quite versatile on location. It's just that from personal experience I've never been in a situation with my girls where I'd ever have been able to set up a second light. They're too spontaneous for that. At home I can set up my lights and then leave them up, so if the girl are cooperative great, if not then later on is o.k.

Beyond that "dramatic", "dynamic" lighting usually requires a cooperative subject that will stand in a given space. I've found that you can't get that kind of cooperation till they hit about 4 years old.

I have a cheap TTL Polaroid unit now- this one.. The vertical only bounce is limiting, as is the low output. However, it was enough to improve my on camera bounce techniques and beat the on camera flash.

I know I won't be able to recoup the cost- I just think the speed lights will always have value to me as a portable battery powered light source, so when I decide I'm ready to add moonlights, I'm not replacing something I already bought.

I do have kids. Two of them, although they are now 20 and 24. And you make a good point, I think. I've done a lot of flash photography of them, much of it at karate tournaments. I've done some shots of my son when he was in the band at a military high school, and all of them were done with one flash. I'm thinking a little older, I guess. And I've only started thinking about what I could do with a second flash away from home recently.

You are probably right, now that I think about it. But I would still recommend a stand and umbrella for the first speedlight be included in the budget even if monolights are the main purchases. Having a few relatively inexpensive tools to get the flash away from the camera are worthwhile, even when they are young.

JohnCollins wrote in post #16599854
.......

....... But I would still recommend a stand and umbrella for the first speedlight be included in the budget even if monolights are the main purchases. Having a few relatively inexpensive tools to get the flash away from the camera are worthwhile, even when they are young.

Absolutely.

Also, remembering some of the gyms I have shot in, I have to say a couple of the Alien Bees bounced off the ceiling from opposite sides of the gym would have simplified my shooting in the various rings over the on-camera flash. There are situations where lugging out the studio lights and plugging them in will make sense. Basketball games come to mind.

I think that I'll be able to pose the baby in a studio setting for about 2 weeks- after that it's going to be pretty tough We have a 5 year old at home, and the new basement setup after rearranging the house is going to get me some dedicated shooting space, so I'll have the ability to set up a studio setting- I just think I'll only be using my lights in that fashion far less often then I will be on the fly. The problem with a monolight and speed light setup- the alien bee is the last expensive one I would consider. The b800 with stand and modifier bracket is around $400 with shipping. Then if I decide I want one of each I have to worry about color balance when shooting together.

Qlayer2 wrote in post #16599926
I think that I'll be able to pose the baby in a studio setting for about 2 weeks- after that it's going to be pretty tough We have a 5 year old at home, and the new basement setup after rearranging the house is going to get me some dedicated shooting space, so I'll have the ability to set up a studio setting- I just think I'll only be using my lights in that fashion far less often then I will be on the fly. The problem with a monolight and speed light setup- the alien bee is the last expensive one I would consider. The b800 with stand and modifier bracket is around $400 with shipping. Then if I decide I want one of each I have to worry about color balance when shooting together.

I use my speedlight (580exII) with my Alien Bees from time to time. No WB issues that are any greater than the color shift you might see just from changing the power level of the Bee. A speedlight at full power makes a good hair light, fill spot or background light. While you may find your shooting time in the basement to be less than ideal, you'll find that you can set up a light in the house for well lit candids. A monolight with shoot through umbrella aimed into the upper corner of a room will allow you to drop the iso considerably, as well as smaller apertures. This shot was done with a B800 and a white umbrella, allowing me to use iso 100 and f/11, rather than the usually f/4 and iso 400 I would get with an off camera speedlight.

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/tltichy/8356494​680/

Kids can be difficult, but take a look at what Jason Lee does mostly with a few speedlites -

http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jwlphotography/

Again I would consider the V850 if going with speedlites, they area a serious tool now that you don't have to constantly mess around with a ton of AA batteries. And the remote manual control is brilliant. And the price still amazes me.

I don't disagree with the concept of going with one good studio light either. But a nice set of speedlites is always great to have as well. And having more lights to experiment with is a nice thing.
.

Scatterbrained wrote in post #16599990
This shot was done with a B800 and a white umbrella, allowing me to use iso 100 and f/11, rather than the usually f/4 and iso 400 I would get with an off camera speedlight.

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/tltichy/8356494​680/
Bubble Bath by tltichy, on Flickr

Wow! That is a fantastic photo! In a bathroom, no less? ISO 100 and f/11? That's a phenomenal shot! You shot through the umbrella into a corner? Great stuff.

I have two young kids. One about to turn 3 and one about to turn 5. For what it's worth, these have been my experiences and learnings from the last 4 years of kids photos (I've taken a LOT).
- I started with one Canon 580EX. The Mk II came out shortly after so I gave away the 580EX and picked up a 580EX II. I want to try my hand at off-camera flash, so I picked up 2 more 580EX II.
- Kids move around a lot the second they learn to army crawl. For me, the speedlights were awesome as I could bounce off the ceiling in most cases and get quite good results.
- I hated the IR transmission as I did not find it reliable.
- I can't remember when I bought my first Einstein, but it was close to when the 600EX-RT came out. I do love the Einstein for it's power, but I find I only use it a few times a year because o the hassle of setting it up, plugging it in, etc. If you use any kind of modifier with a speedlight, you're going to have difficulty using small apertures with a decent shutter speed. The Einstein doesn't have that problem as it has so much more power.
- I was fortunate that my wife has always given me carte blanche with my camera spending so I was able to experiment with pretty much anything I wanted to buy. I bought a 24"x36" softbox, huge umbrellas, etc.
- I now have 6 600EXs and love these things. I also bought 6 CP-E4 battery packs for the flashes which I would highly recommend. I don't have experience with the no-name brand packs, but I haven't heard anything bad about them. I just don't like to bother with off-brand things because I personally don't think the savings is worth it for the peace of mind. The great thing about the 600EX flashes is their ease of use with ETTL and the RF transmission. I mention this because you can very easily add more flashes later if you feel that bouncing off the ceiling is not good enough.
- Here's what I have found to be the short-comings of the 600EX flashes. They are not very powerful if you use modifiers, small apertures, faster shutter speeds or a combination of the mentioned. I read an article on strobist about shooting through a white umbrella and have used that a lot since because it seems to diffuse the light well without sucking up all the light. Canon ETTL is sometimes very inconsistent from my experience. That means you will get underexposure, overexposure, etc. However, I would not say it's so bad that I won't use it because that's far from the truth.
Also, along with the battery packs, managing the AA batteries for all my flashes is insane. I have a storage room for all my camera gear and one shelf is set up just for charging the batteries.
- I find the flashes so convenient that I will even mount three of them together for main, two of them for fill and the sixth for light, background, etc. They are so easy to set-up it's amazing.

If your current budget only allows for $500, then I think it's a no-brainer to go for a speedlight because of the versatility that is required to take all the shots of your new baby. Some people are "natural light fanatics" or will tell you to just turn up the ISO, but as I'm a pixel-peeper, I hate noise. A speedlight will let you take so many more good shots and even snapshots when you don't have the ability to carry a big monolight around.

Congratulations on the baby. Hopefully, you can milk that excuse like I did with my wife to get all my camera gear.

^^^^^^^^
Great post! The hassle factor is hard to discount.