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Thread started 16 Jan 2014 (Thursday) 07:56
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Well, that didn't work. Moon Shot.

 
neacail
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Jan 16, 2014 07:56 |  #1

I tried shooting the moon for the first time ever. :)

Here is my final image from last night: :(

IMAGE: http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a435/Iasgair/MOON1_reduced_zpsfd1cc97b.jpg

The stacking went well as far as NR went, but alignment was definitely an issue. Photoshop isn't as clever as I though it was.

Here are dropbox links for the .JPG of one of the eight images, as well as the .RAW file for that image.

https://www.dropbox.co​m …rjbi6/2014_01_1​5_9940.jpg (external link)

https://www.dropbox.co​m …ie6c4/2014_01_1​5_9940.CR2 (external link)

As you can tell by looking at the original, focus is not good, and the image is really noisy.

I used my Canon 70D and my Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM. What I have tried to do here does not exceed what the equipment is capable off. I've reviewed many moon shots with the 70-300 on a crop body.

I manually focused in Live view 10x to the best of my ability, used a tripod, tethered the Camera to my Note 10.1 tablet (so I didn't have to press the shutter button or use a release).

I shot several series of photos. The photos in this series were shot at 1/500 sec; f/8; ISO 400, @ 300mm. Overall this was the best series, though it is underexposed.

Here are the things I know I have to fix:
  • Exposure
  • Focus
  • Burst mode instead of single to decrease the distance the moon moves between shots and improve stacking.


Is there anything that I've missed?

Exposure and Burst mode are easy . . . I'm very concerned about the focus issue.

It may be that I just didn't find ∞ properly. It may be that I didn't find it. It could be that I found it, and that there is an issue with my equipment. Or, perhaps atmospheric conditions interfered (haze, particulates)? Moon too far away (406,333 km last night)?

If any of you fine moon shooters could have a look at my RAW file, and advise me on possible way to improve the image in PS, that would be wonderful. I'm pretty confident that nothing can be done to fix it in post (too far oof, IMO), but my "digital darkroom" skills are very limited. I normally just make very minor adjustments to my images.

I will try again tonight if the sky cooperates. I know it is generally unwise to shoot the full moon, but it has been cloudy here for two weeks. I figured I'd try some shots since I could actually see it.

Thx!

Shelley
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gjl711
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Jan 16, 2014 08:01 |  #2

Looks like you missed focus and moved. What were the settings?

Tonight, try the moony-11 rule. f/11, shutter the reciprocal of the ISO

So, ISO 400, speed 1/400, f/11

But f/8 is usually sharper so that gets you an extra stop to play with
ISO 400, speed 1/800, f/8

Should be plenty fast enough to overcome any camera movement.


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neacail
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Jan 16, 2014 08:34 |  #3

Deleted. Duplicate post.


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MalVeauX
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Jan 16, 2014 08:35 |  #4

Heya,

Don't try and rely on autofocus.

Manually focus. If your camera has live view, use that. Hit the magnify 10x button/tab. Then manually focus. Once focused, leave it in manual and start changing settings for exposure. Stop down to F8~F11 for sharpness and to control amount of light coming in (moon is deceptively bright). Change shutter speed to keep it fast, to avoid motion blur and shake from your longer focal length. Also, because the moon is moving pretty fast. Adjust ISO to get the exposure you want based on those settings. Take an image. Adjust shutter/ISO as needed and do it again.

Use a tripod and shutter release (or self timer). You don't want to press the button with your finger--it will shake bad no matter what, at that focal length.

Don't bother stacking. Most people do not stack the moon. Those shots you saw, are not stacked. Try and get a singular, good image, before you start trying to do stacking and what not in photoshop.

You need to better manual focus and do better with exposure. It would have been fine as a single image, with those two things corrected.

Don't use burst mode. The 2nd, 3rd, etc, images are all going to be shakey/blurred/off. Single image. One sharp image.

Nothing wrong with shooting a full moon. What's un-wise about it? The only real downside to a full moon is that it's just less interesting than a non-full moon, where more light is contrasting on craters. Full moons tend to look bland.

Here's last night at 200mm (1/400s, F11, ISO 200):

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7417/11980925385_34b280c81c_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/mwise1023/11980​925385/  (external link)
DPP_0209 (external link) by Mwise1023 (external link), on Flickr

Very best,

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neacail
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Jan 16, 2014 08:35 as a reply to  @ neacail's post |  #5

Oops. That was weird!

I accidentally posted before I was done. I'll fix the first post and remove the content from the second.

Edit: I sorted out the posts (sort of). My apologies, folks. I don't know how I messed that up.


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neacail
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Jan 17, 2014 08:39 as a reply to  @ neacail's post |  #6

Here is one of my shots from last night.

100% Crop:

IMAGE: http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a435/Iasgair/2014_01_16_9999_100crop_zpsafc6f031.jpg

Cropped and resized:

IMAGE: http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a435/Iasgair/2014_01_16_9999_7_zps5270a205.jpg

1/250 f11 ISO 200 I adjusted the wb and contrast. I didn't do anything else but save the RAW to JPEG. NR and sharpening were done by PS when the JPEG was saved.

My photos from last night were better than the night before.

I used the same setup as the previous night, but I pre-focused my lens during the daylight and taped the focus ring in place. I've seen much better results from this lens for moon shots.

Either my focus is still a bit off, or atmospheric conditions are making things challenging. I live in a very light polluted area, and I'm doing this from my back deck. According to "AstroPanel" seeing conditions were far less then ideal, transparency was very good, and humidity was around 80%.

Next time I try, I'll throw my 70-200 2.8 ii into the mix to see if focus is better. The atmospheric conditions will be about the same tonight as they were last night. I'm not spending too much time trying things each night, as this is cutting into my sleep time.

gjl711 wrote in post #16610006 (external link)
Looks like you missed focus and moved. What were the settings?

Tonight, try the moony-11 rule. f/11, shutter the reciprocal of the ISO

So, ISO 400, speed 1/400, f/11

But f/8 is usually sharper so that gets you an extra stop to play with
ISO 400, speed 1/800, f/8

Should be plenty fast enough to overcome any camera movement.

I'll try f/8 at my next opportunity to see if that improves the focus on my 70-300. :) I'll also try the moony-11 rule. I was concerned about noise, which is why I stuck with a lower ISO last night.

MalVeauX wrote in post #16610091 (external link)
Don't bother stacking. Most people do not stack the moon. Those shots you saw, are not stacked. Try and get a singular, good image, before you start trying to do stacking and what not in photoshop.

You need to better manual focus and do better with exposure. It would have been fine as a single image, with those two things corrected.

Thanks for all of your great advice. My results without stacking as far as noise goes exceeded my expectations. My exposure was better this time, but the focus is still off.

MalVeauX wrote in post #16610091 (external link)
Don't use burst mode. The 2nd, 3rd, etc, images are all going to be shakey/blurred/off. Single image. One sharp image.

That makes sense.

MalVeauX wrote in post #16610091 (external link)
Nothing wrong with shooting a full moon. What's un-wise about it? The only real downside to a full moon is that it's just less interesting than a non-full moon, where more light is contrasting on craters. Full moons tend to look bland.

Here's last night at 200mm (1/400s, F11, ISO 200):

Lovely image! I'm definitely seeing more of what I want to see in yours than I am in mine.

I was thinking that full moons might be tougher to get into focus with the lower contrast.


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Jan 17, 2014 08:47 |  #7

Why not use live view zoomed in 10x and manually focus. You'll be able to get the best results that way. These days there is no need to pre-focus and such with LV.


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Jan 17, 2014 09:07 |  #8

Looks like motion blur. Not sure about the EF 70-300mm but a lot of lenses need to have the Image Stabiliser switched off when using a tripod.


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Jan 17, 2014 09:14 |  #9

gjl711 wrote in post #16612830 (external link)
Why not use live view zoomed in 10x and manually focus. You'll be able to get the best results that way. These days there is no need to pre-focus and such with LV.

That's what I did the night before. It didn't work out so well. :( I just wasn't able to get it quite right.

In the interests of full disclosure, my eyesight has deteriorated a bit over the last couple of years (I'm not 18 anymore ;)). I'm near sighted though, so that shouldn't have any influence on my ability to focus in live view. My dioptric correction is presently -1.5.

MGibbons wrote in post #16612880 (external link)
=MGibbons:);16612880]Looks like motion blur. Not sure about the EF 70-300mm but a lot of lenses need to have the Image Stabiliser switched off when using a tripod.

IS was switched off. Sorry. I neglected to mention that.

I'm not sure if I had the mirror locked up last night, so that may have been something that induced some blur. It wasn't very windy. There was barely a breeze. I wasn't even on the deck with my camera so it wasn't my movements that would have done it. I was in the house controlling it with my tablet.

I'll double check mirror lockup next time.


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Jan 17, 2014 09:21 |  #10

For my moon shots I usually have mirror lock up and then 2 second timer or even 10 second timer just so there is no motion blur.

try that too


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Jan 17, 2014 09:50 |  #11

MGibbons wrote in post #16612880 (external link)
=MGibbons:);16612880]Looks like motion blur. Not sure about the EF 70-300mm but a lot of lenses need to have the Image Stabiliser switched off when using a tripod.

This is only true for older lenses and for long duration shots. I don't think anything about say 1/2 a second will see any drifting and at the speeds you need to shoot the moon there will be none.

neacail wrote in post #16612896 (external link)
That's what I did the night before. It didn't work out so well. :( I just wasn't able to get it quite right.
..

Try this. While the camera is on the tripod, kick it into LV, center on the moon, and zoom in 10x. Move the box until you can get the edge of the moon, not the craters. Set the lens to MF and with one hand 1/2 press the shutter to engage the IS and with the other slowly focus. Turn it one way and then back looking for the point where the wdge of the moon is at it's sharpest. If you pass it, don't try to go back but do it again. These AF lenses are not built for MAing and the play in the focus ring is usually pretty bad. Trying to go back and forth sometimes leads to poorer results.

It takes a bit of practice but LV focusing while zoomed in 10x is going to get you the best results.


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Jan 17, 2014 10:10 |  #12

When you're in Live View, you are already effectively in Mirror Lockup because the mirror swings up in order to do Live View anyway; so it's a freebie that you don't have to think about there.

Autofocus can work just fine for the moon with a little patience. gjl711's suggestion above is how I shoot the moon, except I use LV autofocus using the edge of the moon when I do it. Once the AF locks, just switch off the AF switch so you don't bump it and take a few shots.

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7148/6821047697_45c4327612_b.jpg
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Feb moon-6376 (external link) by Guideon72 (external link), on Flickr

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Jan 17, 2014 11:08 as a reply to  @ Snydremark's post |  #13

Thanks for all of the great suggestions! I'm going to have to print up this thread and work through everything a step at a time.

Great photo, Eric!


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Jan 17, 2014 19:09 |  #14

Stacking an out of focus shot will not work. If I stack amoon shot, it's usually just 3-5 shots just to reduce noise, but there's not much noise to worry about at 100 ISO.

No need for a tripod either :) at those shutter speeds the moon is easy to shoot hand held. As it's so bright, auto-focusing is usually best.

I usually use these settings: 1/250, ƒ/5.6, ISO 100 @250 mm (55-250mm lens), with IS on. When using tripods I find it hit and miss and tkes a while to set up, but handheld, do a burst of 5-10 shots whilst auto-focusing with the centre point, you should definitely get some keepers.

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7260/7710095738_3c395f7c8b_z.jpg
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Jan 17, 2014 22:22 as a reply to  @ NCHANT's post |  #15

I'm getting closer!

70-200 f2.8ii (I was desperate)

IMAGE: http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a435/Iasgair/2014_01_17_9999_4_100crop_zpsbeda5015.jpg

70-300

IMAGE: http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a435/Iasgair/2014_01_17_9999_7_100crop_zpsa78c0a2f.jpg

All I did in Photoshop was up the contrast, save the jpegs, and crop.

Both shots were taken at 1/250 sec; f/8; ISO 200. One was at 200mm and one was at 300mm.

I used autofocus in both cases. For the 200mm photo I did play with the focus a bit afterwards, but the 70-200 nailed it (I think). I didn't play with the focus on the 70-300, and it didn't nail it. I think it was pretty close though: much better than I've done manually up until now.

I should still be able to get better focus, right? I really have no idea how much post is typically done for moon shots yet. I don't think I can get the 70-300 where I want it to be from where it is.

Edit:

6D 100% Crop 70-300. Everything but the body stayed the same.

IMAGE: http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a435/Iasgair/2014_01_18_9999_3_100crop_6d_zps2c2cc137.jpg

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Well, that didn't work. Moon Shot.
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