upgrade from Canon 450d to 7d?

The 7d viewfinder is significantly bigger & brighter, the multifunction controller on the 70d has a fiddle chintzy feel compared to the control wheel and joystick on the 7d and the loss of the Spot and Expansion modes. Also 7d has 3 custom settings vs 1 for the 70d. As far as the build the 7d quality advantage is obvious when you pick it up and use the controls. It is in a whole different class.

No doubt the 70 d would be better for video and live view and has some interesting electronic gadgetry like the touch screen and wifi but the 7d still has better fundamentals for picture taking and handling in the field.

stpix wrote in post #16628747
The 7d viewfinder is significantly bigger & brighter, the multifunction controller on the 70d has a fiddle chintzy feel compared to the control wheel and joystick on the 7d and the loss of the Spot and Expansion modes. Also 7d has 3 custom settings vs 1 for the 70d. As far as the build the 7d quality advantage is obvious when you pick it up and use the controls. It is in a whole different class.

No doubt the 70 d would be better for video and live view and has some interesting electronic gadgetry like the touch screen and wifi but the 7d still has better fundamentals for picture taking and handling in the field.

No, it simply isn't in a different class, not anymore. Just because a camera is heavy does not mean it's "better". My 20D had a joystick, I don't miss it at all. The "chintzy" multi-controller works perfectly fine, it's just different. The only thing that really matters that you just mentioned is the two AF expansion modes (as I said in my first post), the 70D is the better camera for the money, period.

When the 7DII comes out, I'm sure it'll wipe the floor with the 70D, but that's not the case right now.

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #16628676
Yup, my brain just exploded. Weight does NOT equal better build... both cameras are way more solid than any casual shooter is going to need. AF is practically the same, ergonomics is 100% subjective and the VF is so close that it makes practically no difference.

70D is the easy and obvious choice, 7D fanboys aside

LOL, queue mental image of brain plastered walls.

Here's an early feature comparison between 7D and 70D. One interesting tidbit (unverified). The Digic 5+ processor is 17 times faster than the 7D's Digic 4. That's just got to equate to extra capability and ease of use.

Another review pointed out that the 70D is missing some metering modes the 7D has - be interesting to see side by side feature comparison.

You keep saying the AF is the same. True they both have 19 cross-type points but the similarities start getting thin after that. Video, touch-screen AF, dual-pixel technology. Does it have face recognition? I'm sure the 17x faster processor improves AF a bit - root physical technology aside.

The 70D has the advantage of 4 years of advancement. It's a lower end camera status-wise so it lacks a few features.

The 7D is a great camera, but it's due for replacement. When 7Dii is released (surely this year) the price will really plummet. Canon's probably just waiting for the 70D spike to subside.

NBEast wrote in post #16628820
LOL, queue mental image of brain plastered walls.

Here's an early feature comparison between 7D and 70D. One interesting tidbit (unverified). The Digic 5+ processor is 17 times faster than the 7D's Digic 4. That's just got to equate to extra capability and ease of use.

Another review pointed out that the 70D is missing some metering modes the 7D has - be interesting to see side by side feature comparison.

You keep saying the AF is the same. True they both have 19 cross-type points but the similarities start getting thin after that. Video, touch-screen AF, dual-pixel technology. Does it have face recognition? I'm sure the 17x faster processor improves AF a bit - root physical technology aside.

The 70D has the advantage of 4 years of advancement. It's a lower end camera status-wise so it lacks a few features.

The 7D is a great camera, but it's due for replacement. When 7Dii is released (surely this year) the price will really plummet. Canon's probably just waiting for the 70D spike to subside.

Thank you! It helps having someone who's brain isn't on the walls to clarify to some degree what I'm saying

The 7D is a fantastic camera, but I think you'd be nuts to pay $300 more for it than the 70D. Unless you shoot sports or maybe wildlife professionally (and exclusively).

In my opinion, the 70D is the top crop body right now. Canon is clearing the 7D off the shelves for the 7DII. It may have hurt the 70D's AF with the lack of the expansion modes, but if they put them in, the would not be able to give the 7Ds away...

Coming from a 60D to the 5DIII the joystick is just another gizmo. I find no ergonomic advantages over the D-pad (or whatever they call the 8-way selector in the 60D). I wish that Canon included both to appease all parties.

I miss the 60D grip. Perfect for me. The 5DIII's is more squarish and the finger space more cramped.

I miss the articulated screen. Apart from its obvious uses, its hinge forces all buttons (most buttons in the 70D) to the right where they should be. The left hand grips the lens, has no business in the left edge of the camera...

I went from a xt>xsi>50d>60d>7d........

The xsi was a great camera, and even though it maxed out at iso1600, mine was great all the way up,there. I shoot mostly indoor sports, so that hurt. For your requirements, I would look for a real clean, used 60d for around $450. For me, unless your heaven into video, the 70d is not worth the extra $600, I would put that money towards glass.
From the xsi to the 60d would be a great upgrade for you

The only replacement for the 7d will be the rumored 7d2. The 70d is nice if you care about video and live view but otherwise still outclassed by the 7d.

The joystick is significantly better to use than the D-pad, in my opinion. Especially when there are two D-pads, one for each camera orientation.

stpix wrote in post #16629416
The only replacement for the 7d will be the rumored 7d2. The 70d is nice if you care about video and live view but otherwise still outclassed by the 7d.

This. Current data seem to indicate that the high ISO performance is a negligible improvement over the 7D, and the 7D non-live view AF is the best of any Canon crop camera. I never use live view for action shooting. I had a chance to buy a 70D but it does not meet my needs at all.