Lens Sharpness, Pixel Peeping & Prints...

Talley wrote in post #16657545
For the cost I spent on ink/paper it's about 5.5 cents for 4x6, 10c for 8x10 and about 50c for a 13x19. However, I'm not in it for the money. To have complete control is the best reward.

Yeah, if it was that cheap for me, I would be still printing at home too(the paper alone cost more than that for me). I have color corrected monitors to help the Costco process. I lose out on the instant gratification factors of home print, but OK with that

another issue would be pigment vs dye prints... pigment costs so much more.

Does Costco do metallic paper prints?

I've had issues with Costco's color looking weird. Many times prints have a subtle purple hue. You have to look for it, but once you see it you can't make it go away. I would love to print for that cheap, but have resorted to taking to a specialty shop where they look at each shot individually. 4x6 run about 30 cents. I'm probably getting taken to the cleaners, but they look great. Yes, my monitor is calibrated.

PH68 wrote in post #16657239
My Dad still has a poster-size picture he took back in the 1980's of a Scottish loch with perfect reflections on the water.
It was taken about 6.30 in the morning as he went out to get the paper.
He's not a photographer, he just had a Kodak P&S to hand.

Pictures are all about composition and the right lighting.
When it all comes together your gear makes no difference.

You'll do well to convince others of that.

I for one agree.


David

It's not just the "sharpness" you are paying for the Canon lenses, you also pay for the quicker AF, build quality and reliability and compatibility for future Canon cameras.

I will offer one piece of advice for anyone new to photography or happy with there current gear - stay the hell out of the lens section on forums. Your sanity and wallet be grateful. It is hard, but GAS is a terrible affliction with outcomes that are often barely measureable and in a lot of cases, detrimental to the enjoyment of this fine passtime.

oxygen45 wrote in post #16659572
I will offer one piece of advice for anyone new to photography or happy with there current gear - stay the hell out of the lens section on forums. Your sanity and wallet be grateful. It is hard, but GAS is a terrible affliction with outcomes that are often barely measureable and in a lot of cases, detrimental to the enjoyment of this fine passtime.

Well said

Talley wrote in post #16655033
I have access to alot of lenses. I've used alot. Yes, I have gotten hung up on extreme sharpness... Now that I've been printing like crazy on the Pro-100 I realize one thing.

Took two images with two different lenses. 70-200's one a Canon MK2 and the other my Tamron in sig.

at pixel peeping you can notice slight differences. at 13x19 print at best resolution and pressing the paper up against my skull type of inspection

can't see it.

what gives?... how darn big do I need to print???? I really want to justify the more expensive sharper lens but I need to SEE the difference. How big? 48x80? help me out here guys.... when is sharp just not sharp enough?... for prints?

Screen pixels have very definitive edges to them, however printing tiny dots of color on consumer or even prosumer printers doesn't have that same kind of very definitive edging to them. Also many times photos may be at higher resolutions than what printers print, so the print drivers will resize the images for you, which hides differences between 2 photos taken with 2 lenses. When I look at an image from an 18mpx camera on a screen, I usually don't go past 70-80% zoom, that seems to match my prints very closely.

I only use 100% viewing when I am determine best action sets for removing noise and retaining detail, or if I am trying to figure out AF issues.

Charlie wrote in post #16657571
Yeah, if it was that cheap for me, I would be still printing at home too(the paper alone cost more than that for me). I have color corrected monitors to help the Costco process. I lose out on the instant gratification factors of home print, but OK with that

another issue would be pigment vs dye prints... pigment costs so much more.

It can be that cheap for you, you just have to know what you are doing and be willing to work through the process. I picked up somebody's rebate-program Canon Pro printer, Canon paper and high quality german ink. It is now much more expensive to print externally, including time and gas to pick it up. I also have my monitors and printer completely calibrated to each other, and can redo this from time to time to keep them in sync. When we want a poster print, I just walk over and print it out.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16659725
It can be that cheap for you, you just have to know what you are doing and be willing to work through the process. I picked up somebody's rebate-program Canon Pro printer, Canon paper and high quality german ink. It is now much more expensive to print externally, including time and gas to pick it up. I also have my monitors and printer completely calibrated to each other, and can redo this from time to time to keep them in sync. When we want a poster print, I just walk over and print it out.

I blame YOU and Methodical both for my printing investment based on this thread:

https://photography-on-the.net …65&highlight=pa​per&page=2

I suggest anyone read that page and the few after and will solve all of your printing needs. Thanks Teamspeed.... or should my wallet say "Thanks alot " lol

Lol, but see how much fun it is to have everything calibrated together, and you can just walk over and 3-4 minutes later have your prints? I have started to build up my portfolios too, it makes this very easy to create the hardcopy 13x19 portfolios.

This isn't for everyone though. You have to be patient and wait for Canon's Christmas sales to get the paper, and you have to learn how to pull out the check valves from the cartridges, and be patient with the ink refilling process. Once you have removed the check valves the first time however, subsequent refills are MUCH quicker.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16659818
Lol, but see how much fun it is to have everything calibrated together, and you can just walk over and 3-4 minutes later have your prints? I have started to build up my portfolios too, it makes this very easy to create the hardcopy 13x19 portfolios.

This isn't for everyone though. You have to be patient and wait for Canon's Christmas sales to get the paper, and you have to learn how to pull out the check valves from the cartridges, and be patient with the ink refilling process. Once you have removed the check valves the first time however, subsequent refills are MUCH quicker.

VERY rewarding. Now I don't worry about lens sharpness or slightly OOF shots. Printing is such a joy.

45min for all 8 cartridges for me. pulled valves, drilled to 5/32, filled, reset, even transfered the chip from the yellow over to a blank they sent out due to the new yellow ink having issues with flushing and leaving deposits. they (precision colors) included a new yellow to eliminate the issue. I think I could refill all 8 now in 20 min.

I will definitely have to keep an eye out for canon's Christmas sale. I only bought 1,000 4x6 and I'm down to 600 already and it's only feb.

Next time I'll have to order the 8oz ink size so I can refill without having to recalibrate the ICC profile.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16659818
[...] and you have to learn how to pull out the check valves from the cartridges, and be patient with the ink refilling process. Once you have removed the check valves the first time however, subsequent refills are MUCH quicker.

Hi TeamSpeed! I was just looking into those CISS systems (again!) and was wondering if there's a particular reason you chose not to go that way but use refills instead?

Talley wrote in post #16655033
I have access to alot of lenses. I've used alot. Yes, I have gotten hung up on extreme sharpness... Now that I've been printing like crazy on the Pro-100 I realize one thing.

Took two images with two different lenses. 70-200's one a Canon MK2 and the other my Tamron in sig.

at pixel peeping you can notice slight differences. at 13x19 print at best resolution and pressing the paper up against my skull type of inspection

can't see it.

what gives?... how darn big do I need to print???? I really want to justify the more expensive sharper lens but I need to SEE the difference. How big? 48x80? help me out here guys.... when is sharp just not sharp enough?... for prints?

There are quite a few variables you should try out too.

Try 16x24 size prints
Make sure your sharpening workflow is as good as it can be
Try different paper types, Baryta and certain ultrasmooth matte papers may emphasize the detail better
Make sure your editing process doesn't crush the details, certain clarity/detail/contras​t adjustments actually crush fine detail to make images "pop" on a screen, which levels the playing field between good and great lenses.

There are a ton if variables between the lens and the print, and the print destination requires very different considerations in workflow and editing from the screen destination. Make sure your workflow is in top shape to let the great lenses qualities shine.

NatDeroxL7 wrote in post #16660145
There are quite a few variables you should try out too.

Try 16x24 size prints
Make sure your sharpening workflow is as good as it can be
Try different paper types, Baryta and certain ultrasmooth matte papers may emphasize the detail better
Make sure your editing process doesn't crush the details, certain clarity/detail/contras​t adjustments actually crush fine detail to make images "pop" on a screen, which levels the playing field between good and great lenses.

There are a ton if variables between the lens and the print, and the print destination requires very different considerations in workflow and editing from the screen destination. Make sure your workflow is in top shape to let the great lenses qualities shine.

Thank you for your insight. Currently I cannot print larger than my Pro-100 13x19 capability.

Maybe in the future I will purchase a large format 24" printer in addition to my current printer. I can pick up a 24" Canon model for right at 1,000. That will happen if I become pretty stable in side photography work but right now this is all just a hobby.