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Thread started 03 Feb 2014 (Monday) 22:51
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Autofocus and airshows

 
BNOmnivore
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Feb 03, 2014 22:51 |  #1

I have an EOS T1i and USM IS tele zoom. When I've tried to take photos at airshows (e.g. Blue Angels), the autofocus hunts back and forth so much it can't get a lock before the photo opportunity is gone.

From what I've been reading about the new EOS 70d, this sounds like a problem with the capabilities of the AF in the T1i body, not the lens. Is this correct?

What EOS body or bodies would do a better job of locking on to a target like a fast-moving jet near infinity?

I've heard mention of more rapid, accurate focusing with the 70d in Live View. Would using the optical viewfinder and a USM IS lens give any advantage over my T1i, or would I need to use Live View and have it eat the battery for lunch?

I'm retired and don't want to spend a bunch of $$ on a new body unless it will solve my problem...

Thanks.




  
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garciarf
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Feb 03, 2014 22:58 |  #2

What lens are you using?

This is not a problem with the body, some lenses are too slow to focus and have a lot of hunting, others are fine.

A friend of mine used my XT and 70-200f4/1.4x combo to shoot the Blue Angels last year and had no problems, he was limited by the 3fps shooting speed, not by the lens.

Another friend used his XS when he still had it and a 100-400L, and his photos were actually better than mine (7D / Sigma 80-400 OS).

The 70D will AF better in live view, which I seriously hope you aren't using to shoot an airshow, viewfinder/phase detection AF is infinitely better.


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EOS 1Ds, 1D Mark III, 7D, XT. 18-55, 70-200 f4L, 28-135, 28-70 f2.8L, 40mm 2.8, Tokina 12-24, Sigma 80-400 OS, EF 100-400 f4.5-5.6 L IS, 1.4x Extender III.
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kin2son
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Feb 03, 2014 23:23 |  #3
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AF speed and accuracy is a combination of both body and lens.

As said above what lens are we talking about to be exact? What AF mode are you using?


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BigAl007
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Feb 04, 2014 02:39 |  #4

I would suggest making sure that you are using ONLY the centre focus point. The very best option is to use AI Servo AF and to enable Back Button Focus. BBF enables you to separate the AF from the shutter release, but needs practice. It also allows you to prefocus at roughly hyperfocal distance and shoot without the camera trying to refocus, with many AF lenses shooting in MF is harder as there is very little resistance to the focus ring moving. Using BBF lets the motor lock the focus ring for you. I shot airshows happily with my 300D (original rebel). The only selectable AF mode was the supposedly clever it decides one, you couldonly get AI Servo by shooting in "Sport" mode, not very useful. BBF is also not avilable on the 300D.

You do not say which telephoto zoom you are using, focal length is important. You really need to have enough FL to more than fill that central AF point. Usually it's not too bad with close formations, they can just look like one big aircraft to the AF system. For single aircraft, even something as big as an F18 is actually a very small target. Very often even 400mm is far too short to get a really good shot unless the aircraft is at its closest approach to you (and you are close to the center of the flight line) add altitude and things just get worse. At least your lens has IS. Although with jets you can bump the shutter speed as high as you want (within ISO limitations, just don't underexpose RAW + ETTR if you can) you should still use IS as Canon gives us in lens IS and this will help the AF as it stabilises that too. In fact the IS should also make it easier to frame the shot too helping you keep the AF point on target. Just remember to switch to Mode 2 as you are panning. As to get good prop blur (much better than the aircraft looking as if it should fall from the sky) you really should be shooting those at shutter speeds of 1/160s. At least that's better than big helicopters which have such slow rotors that really good rotor blur can needs shutter speeds of 1/60 and under at FL's of 300mm plus. All of which make even the 100-400L's old IS system a godsend.

(Most of my airshow stuff is on my Flickr, some is good most is just average though)

Alan


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watt100
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Feb 04, 2014 04:22 |  #5

BNOmnivore wrote in post #16661868 (external link)
I have an EOS T1i and USM IS tele zoom. When I've tried to take photos at airshows (e.g. Blue Angels), the autofocus hunts back and forth so much it can't get a lock before the photo opportunity is gone.

From what I've been reading about the new EOS 70d, this sounds like a problem with the capabilities of the AF in the T1i body, not the lens. Is this correct?

What EOS body or bodies would do a better job of locking on to a target like a fast-moving jet near infinity?

I've heard mention of more rapid, accurate focusing with the 70d in Live View. Would using the optical viewfinder and a USM IS lens give any advantage over my T1i, or would I need to use Live View and have it eat the battery for lunch?

I'm retired and don't want to spend a bunch of $$ on a new body unless it will solve my problem...

Thanks.

I agree with the other posters, it's the lens you are using or the settings that are causing problems, not the camera




  
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Snowyman
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Feb 04, 2014 04:24 |  #6

I recommend watching this seminar on Canon's Autofocus system:
http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=iAx86nblZ2g (external link)
http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=3_F7lCvp5DI (external link)
http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=1WTWiN9kLts (external link)

Rudy Winston is discussing Canon's high end cameras but the principles and insights into how the Autofocus works and its limitations are invaluable.


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Snowyman
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Feb 04, 2014 05:50 |  #7

Canon's Rudy Winston again on EOS Rebels:

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=Myds2jxQTXQ (external link)
At about 26 mins in he discusses EOS Rebel Autofocus in detail.


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Keyan
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Feb 04, 2014 07:46 |  #8

As others have mentioned..

AF to center point, use AI Servo focusing mode.

I am also wondering what lens exactly you are using. There are different "classes" of USM drive, they are not all made equal.

Here is one from the 55-250 IS, which is pretty slow to focus. Sometimes you have you help the lens by manually focusing it to where it is close to focus already so it doesn't have to hunt as much.

IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8281/7665209444_d13c781c19_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/61744772@N06/7​665209444/  (external link)
Plane (external link) by slcko (external link), on Flickr

Of course, going up to an L lens is a whole different deal, the focus drive is so much faster and they do a much better job tracking:
IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7327/9138560479_36d21e2a17_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/61744772@N06/9​138560479/  (external link)
Blue Angel (external link) by slcko (external link), on Flickr

Cameras: 7D2, S100
Lenses: 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM, 18-135 STM, 24-70 f/4L IS USM, 50 f/1.4 USM,70-300L IS USM
Other Stuff: 430 EX II, Luma Labs Loop 3, CamRanger

  
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neacail
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Feb 04, 2014 08:11 as a reply to  @ Keyan's post |  #9

Are you using the EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM? If so, that lens is notoriously poor when shooting moving subjects.

I used a T1i for years, and only ever had issues focusing in low light. As an airshow is not a low light affair, I think it is unlikely that it is the camera. My EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM performs quite well on the T1i: not as good as an "L," but quite admirably for a budget lens.


Shelley
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apersson850
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Feb 04, 2014 08:14 as a reply to  @ neacail's post |  #10

You aren't using live view, are you?


Anders

  
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Keyan
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Feb 04, 2014 10:09 |  #11

The new 55-250 IS STM is actually a great lens for someone on a budget - I have been impressed with the images it is producing and the focus system is much better than the old version.


Cameras: 7D2, S100
Lenses: 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM, 18-135 STM, 24-70 f/4L IS USM, 50 f/1.4 USM,70-300L IS USM
Other Stuff: 430 EX II, Luma Labs Loop 3, CamRanger

  
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watt100
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Feb 04, 2014 10:24 |  #12

Keyan wrote in post #16662659 (external link)
The new 55-250 IS STM is actually a great lens for someone on a budget - I have been impressed with the images it is producing and the focus system is much better than the old version.

The OP has not responded to any questions but the lens used was probably not the old non-stm 55-250IS which was impressive for a $100 kit lens


XSi / 450D
Canon 55-250IS (old)
f5.6
1/1250
250mm (cropped)

IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5457/9725181394_c613f84278_c.jpg



  
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Keyan
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Feb 04, 2014 10:37 |  #13

watt100 wrote in post #16662702 (external link)
The OP has not responded to any questions but the lens used was probably not the old non-stm 55-250IS which was impressive for a $100 kit lens


XSi / 450D
Canon 55-250IS (old)
f5.6
1/1250
250mm (cropped)

QUOTED IMAGE

He mentions it being an IS USM. No 55-250 has had USM. It is possibly the 75-300 III USM, or the 70-300 non-L.

Nice shot, btw, I have yet to see a Raptor.

Edit: Reread what you wrote, you said it was NOT probably the 55-250 IS, I agree, given his description. My first shot was with the 55-250 first gen as well. It is a very good lens. If I were buying a 55-250 now I would get the STM version for the enhanced optics and improved AF. The 55-250 would hunt for me quite a bit especially trying to find aircraft and occasionally lose while the planes come down the flight line.


Cameras: 7D2, S100
Lenses: 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM, 18-135 STM, 24-70 f/4L IS USM, 50 f/1.4 USM,70-300L IS USM
Other Stuff: 430 EX II, Luma Labs Loop 3, CamRanger

  
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BNOmnivore
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Feb 04, 2014 23:57 |  #14

Sorry, the OP was out all day today. Thanks for all the comments and advice. My former lens which hunted badly was in fact teh 75-300 IS USM that you warned about. My newer lens is the EFS 55-250 IS, doesn't say USM or STM. Sorry for the confusion.

From ignorance I was using One Shot AF and single-shooting drive mode. I will investigate AI Servo, thanks. Need to look up what Mode 2 is.

Again, thanks for all the info and great photos.




  
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apersson850
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Feb 05, 2014 01:42 as a reply to  @ BNOmnivore's post |  #15

If it doesn't explicitly say STM on the lens, then it's not that version. But it should work anyway.
Your EF-S 55-250 mm f/4-5.6 IS doesn't have any IS mode selector switch. It does have IS mode 2, though, but the mode selection is done automatically by the lens. IS mode 2 is a mode that's specifically desgined to work better when panning a subject, i.e. following its path, keeping it in your viewfinder as it passes by. Just like an anti aircraft gunner would do, you just fire less lethal shots, even when you actually have a Canon!

Use Servo AF, continuous drive mode and one AF point to begin with. Start tracking the aircraft prior to taking photos of it, by tracing it with the viewfinder whilst keeping the trigger button half-pressed. Then fire as you see fit, but never release the trigger button fully, but just to the half-pressed position. Thus you keep on tracking focus even when not shooting. Keep on tracking/panning after taking the last picture of a fly-by, as that will make your photos steadier. When tracking aircrafts on a bly sky you can also use all AF points at the same time with reasonable success. Start with the center point on your camera model. The camera can then hand over focus tracking to another point, should you fail in keeping the center point on the target all the time. That's easy to do.

To keep on focustracking between shots is easier to do when you can keep a button fully pressed, rather than having to remember not to let go fully of the trigger button. This is what back button focusing is about. For cameras with AF-ON button, just keep that pressed. You don't have to remove focusing from half-press for this purpose. Cameras lacking the AF-ON button requires the * button to be reassigned from being AE lock to AF ON.


Anders

  
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Autofocus and airshows
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