ETTR questions

I've read a couple threads on here about exposing by around +2/3. I run a 60d and T3i. Is it good practice to leave it dialed in +2/3 most of the time? Is this because the camera underexposes or are you pulling exposure back down by 2/3 in post? I'm trying to understand if you overexpose by 2/3 and leave it, or is this fiddled with in pp?

How does this have anything to do with ETTR?

In general, I like to expose +2/3, especially for skin tones, but I fail to see how that has anything to do with flash.

Anytime you try to push exposure up in post, you lose something. It's better to be slightly over exposed and pull it down than try to push it up.

There is no magic in just overexposing by 2/3. That might work for you in some circumstances and not others due to the built in bias of reflective metering. The goal is to expose to the point where your highlights are on the verge of clipping, regardless of the exposure compensation settings.

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #16665367
How does this have anything to do with ETTR?

In general, I like to expose +2/3, especially for skin tones, but I fail to see how that has anything to do with flash.

Greg, you may have made the same mistake as I did a few days back, on a similar thread. ETTR = expose to the right and of course the similar flash related term is ETTL.

Frodge, ther other thread, to which you eere a contributor, is at https://photography-on-the.net …?t=1356777&high​light=ettr.

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #16665367
How does this have anything to do with ETTR?

The OP mentions intentionally overexposing by 2/3 of a stop. Overexposing a scene is normally what ETTR is all about. While the specific amount of exposure - 2/3 of a stop - may only truly be "exposing to the right", in the strictest sense of the term, on occasion, intentional overexposure certainly "has to do with" ETTR - it is the same principle, done for the same reasons, just not as precisely executed as true ETTR shooting. Greg, I wonder how adding 2/3 of a stop could possibly not have to do with ETTR. Your statements here really confuse me.

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #16665367
In general, I like to expose +2/3, especially for skin tones, but I fail to see how that has anything to do with flash.

It doesn't have anything to do with flash. Is it supposed to? I am not sure why you even mention flash here - this post has nothing to do with it.

Mr Reichner, you are correct in what I am thinking. Ive read posts where members on this forum leave their camera settings at +2/3rd of a stop most of the time. i understanding pushing exposure in post introduces noise. Are folks exposing +2/3rd and leaving it there because of the way the camera biases exposure? Or are they then pulling the +2/3rd back down in post? I tend to see that the Canon cameras seem to underexpose a little bit, but maybe im wrong...

And to really confuse things some folks even suggest the oposite to ETTR which of course would be ETTL! Definatly time to check the context to be sure what one is talking about.

In answer to the original question. A lot of photographers feel that Canon cameras meter somewhere between 1/3 & 2/3 of a stop low so add that permamently as a fixed EC. One could also add a fixed amount of EC on top of that to allow for a certain amount of correction for ETTR purpouses,although that won't always work. The point with ETTR is that the amount of adjustment needed to move the histogram to the right edge will vary by subject. This is in addition to any EC setting that is needed to compensate for variations in subject brightness issues.

So you might need to add +2/3 to allow for the camera being under. You may need to subtract -1 1/3 stop because of a generally dark subject (what EC is really designed for) thenyou want to move the histogram to the right, but you have a specular sun reflection on some polished metal that can blow out, but not the detail on a brightly lit light coloured spot. That last will also need some level of EC be applied if you are using a semi auto exposure mode using the camera meter, but is very hard to guess up front. For average scenes though an average plus EC added to the rest of any amounts of EC will at least get you close to ETTR.

Alan

Tom Reichner wrote in post #16665510
The OP mentions intentionally overexposing by 2/3 of a stop. Overexposing a scene is normally what ETTR is all about. While the specific amount of exposure - 2/3 of a stop - may only truly be "exposing to the right", in the strictest sense of the term, on occasion, intentional overexposure certainly "has to do with" ETTR - it is the same principle, done for the same reasons, just not as precisely executed as true ETTR shooting. Greg, I wonder how adding 2/3 of a stop could possibly not have to do with ETTR. Your statements here really confuse me.


It doesn't have anything to do with flash. Is it supposed to? I am not sure why you even mention flash here - this post has nothing to do with it.

Read John from PA's post two posts above yours for the explanation.

BigAl007 wrote in post #16665556
And to really confuse things some folks even suggest the oposite to ETTR which of course would be ETTL! Definatly time to check the context to be sure what one is talking about.

In answer to the original question. A lot of photographers feel that Canon cameras meter somewhere between 1/3 & 2/3 of a stop low so add that permamently as a fixed EC. One could also add a fixed amount of EC on top of that to allow for a certain amount of correction for ETTR purpouses,although that won't always work. The point with ETTR is that the amount of adjustment needed to move the histogram to the right edge will vary by subject. This is in addition to any EC setting that is needed to compensate for variations in subject brightness issues.

So you might need to add +2/3 to allow for the camera being under. You may need to subtract -1 1/3 stop because of a generally dark subject (what EC is really designed for) thenyou want to move the histogram to the right, but you have a specular sun reflection on some polished metal that can blow out, but not the detail on a brightly lit light coloured spot. That last will also need some level of EC be applied if you are using a semi auto exposure mode using the camera meter, but is very hard to guess up front. For average scenes though an average plus EC added to the rest of any amounts of EC will at least get you close to ETTR.

Alan

So basically you are saying, forget the idea of a standard EC across the board and meter each shot with an idea toward a slight overexposure. I've never understood why this concept seems so complicated. Just use your histogram and look for clipping on the right side. Yes, that means your first shot may be wasted, and yes you have to chimp, but its a pretty simple concept.

So get as far to the right without clipping? So if your walking around you need to do this for each different scene.....

Frodge wrote in post #16665593
So get as far to the right without clipping? So if your walking around you need to do this for each different scene.....

Yes, provided I'm shooting landscape or something where that sort of method applies. You also have to decide if the dynamic range of a given scene is such that you want to allow clipping (sun in the frame, or bright reflections that if you tried to retain you would lose the bulk of the scene to shadow). But thats the basic idea.

One thing I don't quite understand...

Let's say I've got correct exposure with the AV and SS I want. Would an ETTRer bump the iso higher to get brighter exposure? Seems the iso bump is going to introduce more noise then ETTRing would reduce. Or is that a bad assumption.

(I'm in manual so, as far as I can tell, EC isn't an option).

travisvwright wrote in post #16665914
One thing I don't quite understand...

Let's say I've got correct exposure with the AV and SS I want. Would an ETTRer bump the iso higher to get brighter exposure? Seems the iso bump is going to introduce more noise then ETTRing would reduce. Or is that a bad assumption.

(I'm in manual so, as far as I can tell, EC isn't an option).

You need to define correct exposure. The ETTR folks believe (with some evidence) that the correct exposure is that where the whites are on the verge of clipping. By raising the exposure to that point you are lifting the shadows so there is less noise in there as well and its easier to control the shadow depth than it is to regain lost highlights. If you are defining correct exposure by some meter method that gives you a bell curve in the histogram with the highlights well below clipping then you would want to change the exposure to match that. Aperture or shutter speed would be preferable to ISO for the reason you list.

travisvwright wrote in post #16665914
One thing I don't quite understand...

Let's say I've got correct exposure with the AV and SS I want. Would an ETTRer bump the iso higher to get brighter exposure? Seems the iso bump is going to introduce more noise then ETTRing would reduce. Or is that a bad assumption.

(I'm in manual so, as far as I can tell, EC isn't an option).

Yes, if you are at a ss/av that is set in stone so to speak. Otherwise, just adjust ss to compensate (provided your aperture is where you want it)