60D vs 70D vs 7D - Low Light purchase?

mp0510 wrote in post #16687105
I'm not planning on spending a lot of time using 12,800. But I've seen a few times where I had to use 6400 and then push it in post, so would like 12,800 as an option.

Thanks for all the comments so far! It sounds like the 70D is the best choice, with the 7D and option. It's funny no one is even mentioning the 60D. I thought it would at least have a few positives. But at least this narrows down the choices.

The mentions of 5D3 bring up an alternative. (5D3 isn't an option now. I don't do credit cards. Cars and homes are the only things I buy on credit) What would you say comparing a used 5D2 to the 70D or 7D? Again, the biggest question being available light focus and shooting at high ISO. I think it's past what I want to spend, but every so often one pops up at a good price, so I figure I'll toss it in the mix for opinions.

I get not wanting to open a credit card for most occasions, but when there's no interest for 18 months, what's to lose? As long as you're responsible enough to keep up with the payments, it's basically layaway that you get to take home with you and use while you pay it off. I've bought a TV and two cameras using this and haven't paid a dime of interest. I'm about to pay off my 6D (had it for about 13 months) and then I'll be putting a new Mac on the card. I know usually there are strings attached with these deals, but this one's strings only come into play if you go over the 18 month period, so if you don't do that, it's nothing but win.

neacail wrote in post #16687110
Don't get me wrong . . . the 70D is a great camera (I love mine). I use it mostly for shooting ice hockey in dimly lit arenas, and it is a great performer. But, the noise can be quite time consuming to clean up nicely at 6400. Especially when processing a lot of images.

I find the noise from the 6D much less offensive and cumbersome to deal with. I'd much rather clean up 6D noise at 12800 than 70D noise at 6400.

Fair enough. You have the advantage of shooting both. I will say that Canon's noise patterns have become much better to my eyes than they used to be. I hated anything above ISO1600 on my T2i, but with my M I can shoot to 3200 and beyond and be fairly pleased with the results. And browsing the thread I posted earlier I've seen some really great shots from the 70D at IS012800.

neacail wrote in post #16687110
Don't get me wrong . . . the 70D is a great camera (I love mine). I use it mostly for shooting ice hockey in dimly lit arenas, and it is a great performer. But, the noise can be quite time consuming to clean up nicely at 6400. Especially when processing a lot of images.

I find the noise from the 6D much less offensive and cumbersome to deal with. I'd much rather clean up 6D noise at 12800 than 70D noise at 6400.

6400 ISO is still very usable for 70D and very hard to recognize from 6D image...

12800ISO is something different, 6D clearly wins over 70D, but you can get pretty similar results with proper noise reduction and picture resizing... noise characteristics are same, only noise is smoother on 6D.

two examples :

6D

http://fc08.deviantart​.net …_by_palad1ncz-d74u9p5.jpg

70D

http://fc06.deviantart​.net …_by_palad1ncz-d74u99k.jpg

why dont you just get a tripod? ISO 100 any DSLR will be better than ISO 12800 any DSLR...

why would you want to handhold these these particular shots?

For shots of objects, not people, the IS on the 35F2 IS will let you use slow shutter speeds and reduced ISO.

70D for the AF system. The last several generations of Canon bodies are quite useable at ISO 12,800. You have to work at it, though. Proper exposure and PP yield very good results. That said, my 6D is better at high-ISO shooting, which is why (one reason, anyway) I bought it.

palad1n wrote in post #16687528
6400 ISO is still very usable for 70D and very hard to recognize from 6D image...

12800ISO is something different, 6D clearly wins over 70D, but you can get pretty similar results with proper noise reduction and picture resizing... noise characteristics are same, only noise is smoother on 6D.

The noise in those shots is atrocious. My guess is you are not doing your part. The cameras are capable of much better.

The 60D has neither the noise control or the AF you want. It has good autofocus, but you want tracking, the 60D doesn't do that as well.

The 70D has better jpeg processing than both the 7D and the 60D. It has the most advanced LiveView AF, touchscreen, wifi, and the advanced MFA that allows for adjustments at both ends of a zoom.

It also has a few more pixels to work with for cropping and framing.

6D at 25,600 and 60D at 12,800. I'm having a hard time finding noise in either one. EXIF intact.

mp0510 wrote in post #16686815
I want to buy a body I'll be using for the following scenarios and would like the thoughts and feedback of actual owners of these cameras.

1. Low Light - I want to shoot available light in dark environments (think churches, abandoned buildings, etc.) where the people might be active with decent depth of field. So I'm thinking f/4 - f/8, ISO 12800, 1/200. I want the best detail possible (hence the desire for a full frame).

2. Absolute razor sharp focus accuracy in good light/flash (ISO 100, f/1.8, 1/120). Not Live view or Manual, just standard auto-focus.

2. Ability to keep focus on moving objects that might shift away from the center focus point (BIF, football, car racing).

Budget-wise, the 60D seems the best choice, since it's available much cheaper. But it doesn't allow microfocus adjustments, which I would LIKE to have. The 7D has a reputation for great focus accuracy, but is older and I'm not sure how good the ISO 12,800 will compare to the 70D in real world situations. I have no idea how well any of these can focus in dim/dark environments (churches, etc.) with just available light.

Any thoughts? Experiences?

Heya,

Get a 6D.

Even a humble Rebel can keep focus on most objects as they track via AI Servo focus mode. The 6D may not have the same robust tracking/autofocus as the 7D and 5D3, but it's still very good at focus and can do moving objects. It just can't do super fast dynamic moving objects (things moving in a weird figure eight, instead of a straight line).

I do birds in flight with a T4i. So I know you can do it with a 6D. It's not difficult. Doing BIF takes skill regardless of what camera/autofocus system you use. So don't put so much emphasis on the camera's autofocus for this.

Nailing focus is how you get razor sharp in low light. That requires two things: 1) wide aperture, and 2) high ISO ability. None of those crops have as good as the 6D's ISO handling ability.

6D.

Very best,

Keyan wrote in post #16687648
The 60D has neither the noise control or the AF you want. It has good autofocus, but you want tracking, the 60D doesn't do that as well.

The 70D has better jpeg processing than both the 7D and the 60D. It has the most advanced LiveView AF, touchscreen, wifi, and the advanced MFA that allows for adjustments at both ends of a zoom.

It also has a few more pixels to work with for cropping and framing.

There isn't 2 cents worth of difference between the noise characteristics of the 60D and 70D if you shoot raw.

EOS5DC wrote in post #16687664
There isn't 2 cents worth of difference between the noise characteristics of the 60D and 70D if you shoot raw.

I haven't shot both, but from what I've seen I don't think that's true. Much like with the 6D, the noise patterns on the newer sensors are much more pleasing to the eye than the older sensors were imo, even in raw.

My experience with the 70D was only a few shots at the retail counter, but I believe the improvements in Canon's latest cameras are in the processing chips (DIGIC 5+), not in the sensor. As evidenced by MUCH better high-ISO jpgs, and nearly indistinguishable cr2s.

I get that, but even from my T2i to EOS M the files are noticeably better to my eyes on the M. And browsing the high ISO threads I've seen some really impressive processed raw files from the 70D. Again though, never shot with one. I'm happy with my X-E1 all the way up to 6400 ISO too (it's max for raw).

EOS5DC wrote in post #16687664
There isn't 2 cents worth of difference between the noise characteristics of the 60D and 70D if you shoot raw.

Oddly, I have owned both, and yes, there is. The noise pattern cleans up much more easily on the 70D. It is more of a film grain as opposed to the grain and signal noise. It seems that Canon has improved the transmission components and they don't introduce as much signal mess (like the 5D3's banding) as they did before.

Everyone's pushing the 6D. I like it. I use a 5D3 at work and love it, but both are out of the personal budget. My goal is under $1,000. I can get all three I I originally listed for that with careful shopping and through contacts at some camera stores if the timing is right. 60D is obviously much cheaper, so if it was good enough, it would be a great budget option. Right now, it seems the 70D has a slight advantage. I've been using Photoshop since version 5, and LR since 1, so the PP side is no problem, I only shoot RAW.

With all that said, what are your thoughts if I throw a 5d2 as a potential option as well? Harder to find for $1,000, but it would at least be a FF if I wanted to go a little over budget.